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US Politics Thread: Year 2 of 1000 of the TrumpenReich

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3 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

your arguement seems to be that since we have put up with a stupid system for over 200 years, we must never ever change it.  Also, the moment Republicans get screwed by the EC, you will hear a howl that will pierce the heavens.  

 

You're right. That's why there is a significant political movement in Congress as we speak to legally Amend the Constitution to do away with the Electoral College.

 

...

 

Oh wait...

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22 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

your arguement seems to be that since we have put up with a stupid system for over 200 years, we must never ever change it.  Also, the moment Republicans get screwed by the EC, you will hear a howl that will pierce the heavens.  

 

You know what's an even dumber system? Direct democracy by way of a national popular election. Just because the current system isn't the best, it doesn't mean that we should throw it away and go with something obviously worse. Then again, libs have a history of doing just that with the Affordable Care Act. Sure, our healthcare system was broken, but the solution wasn't to introduce a system with even more crony kickbacks and corruption.

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46 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

your arguement seems to be that since we have put up with a stupid system for over 200 years, we must never ever change it.  Also, the moment Republicans get screwed by the EC, you will hear a howl that will pierce the heavens.  

 

'My team lost this round' doesn't make each state having seperate votes a stupid system.

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10 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

your arguement seems to be that since we have put up with a stupid system for over 200 years, we must never ever change it.

 

I agree, that's a fallacy. We should do away with the whole thing and make way for the glorious God-Emperor of America who will bring us to our fated true destiny.

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2 hours ago, Sturgeon said:

 

I agree, that's a fallacy. We should do away with the whole thing and make way for the glorious God-Emperor of America who will bring us to our fated true destiny.

 

As long as this God Emperor doesn't have a twitter account, I'm cool with it.

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On 1/30/2019 at 9:30 PM, Ulric said:

Sadly, since the influx of Californians to our state, we have seen an increase in the rate of incest and ether huffing among our elected officials. My state is fucked so hard, and it didn't take but 10 years for it to happen.

 

I guess in a strange way it adds more weight to my vote, because instead of isolating the effect of my vote to the state of Colorado, it now gets counted with the national vote, but that is a really stupid way of doing it. We need to split the Denver/Boulder/Fort Collins region off into their own politically autonomous zones so they stop fucking up the rest of the state. There is much more to Colorado than the front range, just don't tell that to anyone from the front range.

 

The electoral college protects minority interests, and I thought that the left was all about protecting minorities.

 

The electorial college does not protect minority interests, nor was it designed to do so.  It was created by the founding fathers to appease the South, making it possible for them to count slaves as 3/5th of a person for the purpose of EC representation.  

 

 

Quote

 

At the Philadelphia convention, the visionary Pennsylvanian James Wilson proposed direct national election of the president. But the savvy Virginian James Madison responded that such a system would prove unacceptable to the South: “The right of suffrage was much more diffusive [i.e., extensive] in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of Negroes.” In other words, in a direct election system, the North would outnumber the South, whose many slaves (more than half a million in all) of course could not vote. But the Electoral College—a prototype of which Madison proposed in this same speech—instead let each southern state count its slaves, albeit with a two-fifths discount, in computing its share of the overall count.

 

Virginia emerged as the big winner—the California of the Founding era—with 12 out of a total of 91 electoral votes allocated by the Philadelphia Constitution, more than a quarter of the 46 needed to win an election in the first round. After the 1800 census, Wilson’s free state of Pennsylvania had 10% more free persons than Virginia, but got 20% fewer electoral votes. Perversely, the more slaves Virginia (or any other slave state) bought or bred, the more electoral votes it would receive. Were a slave state to free any blacks who then moved North, the state could actually lose electoral votes.

 

If the system’s pro-slavery tilt was not overwhelmingly obvious when the Constitution was ratified, it quickly became so. For 32 of the Constitution’s first 36 years, a white slaveholding Virginian occupied the presidency."

 

http://time.com/4558510/electoral-college-history-slavery/

 

 

So yeah, the EC has always been garbage.

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39 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

The electorial college does not protect minority interests, nor was it designed to do so.  It was created by the founding fathers to appease the South, making it possible for them to count slaves as 3/5th of a person for the purpose of EC representation.  

 

 

 

So yeah, the EC has always been garbage.

 

The 3/5s rule was designed to LIMIT the power of the Southern slave states.

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2 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

The electorial college does not protect minority interests, nor was it designed to do so.  It was created by the founding fathers to appease the South, making it possible for them to count slaves as 3/5th of a person for the purpose of EC representation.  

 

 

 

So yeah, the EC has always been garbage.

 

Well, technically, the entire Constitution was also built around the realities of the time, within which slavery occupied a high place.

 

To maintain moral consistency on this issue, I expect you to go full Timothy McVeigh in light of this new information.

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8 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

The electorial college does not protect minority interests, nor was it designed to do so.  It was created by the founding fathers to appease the South, making it possible for them to count slaves as 3/5th of a person for the purpose of EC representation.  

 

 

 

So yeah, the EC has always been garbage.

 

So, the EC was there as a concession to slave states? That's why it needs to go? How about we do away with every institution that historically promoted slavery, like the Democrat party!

 

Slavery is bad, right?

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The question really should be: Does the EC still provide utility at protecting the interests of lower population states against higher population states - and/or will it likely do so in the future?

 

The answer is obviously yes, in fact that's what the Democrats are complaining about. So, no, Wyoming is not going to vote to disenfranchise itself any time soon. Not unless they suddenly decide they want to be exactly the kind of hellhole California is.

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6 hours ago, Sturgeon said:

The question really should be: Does the EC still provide utility at protecting the interests of lower population states against higher population states - and/or will it likely do so in the future?

 

The answer is obviously yes, in fact that's what the Democrats are complaining about. So, no, Wyoming is not going to vote to disenfranchise itself any time soon. Not unless they suddenly decide they want to be exactly the kind of hellhole California is.

 

What is so hard about understanding that my vote should count no more or no less than yours?  

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8 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

What is so hard about understanding that my vote should count no more or no less than yours?  

 

Oh I understand, I just disagree. If that's the principle we're going by, then we should do everything by direct democracy. But that would be a disaster, so we do things differently. Same reason here.

Fuck your vote.

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12 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

 

Oh I understand, I just disagree. If that's the principle we're going by, then we should do everything by direct democracy. But that would be a disaster, so we do things differently. Same reason here.

Fuck your vote.

 

8 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

ok then.  See ya later.

 

Dems hate it when the tables turn. Trying to eliminate the EC is saying "fuck your vote" to everyone living in a low population state. Do you live in California, New York, Pennsylvania, Texas, Illinois, or Florida? No? Then fuck your vote, you don't matter.

 

Montana, Wyoming, and the Dakotas combined don't have as much say as Virginia does.

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1 hour ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

ok then.  See ya later.

 

I'm an authoritarian statist, da fuck did you expect me to say? I like systems that work, and I only care if they're "fair" to the extent that it helps that.

 

Fair is completely intangible and depends on who you ask, how the fuck do optimize for it, and how does optimizing for it keep your society stable for long periods of time? The people complaining about vote weight have no answer to these questions because they know in their heart of hearts that they are barking up the wrong tree. But dammit, they want their lollipop!

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It really does perplex me about the Left's whining about the Electoral College. Do Democrats not know what an enormous advantage it is having California and New York locked up as a safe state at the get go? That is almost 1/3 of the votes necessary to win right there. Every election, the Republican Presidential candidate is basically forced to run the table in terms of picking up every swing state out there, and said candidate has to run on a platform that appeals to the wildly different voting groups in those said states. Which is why Trump, and none of the other 15 GOP candidates in 2016, was the ONLY one capable of defeating Hillary because he had the chops to be able to go into not only Florida and Ohio but Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, michigan and win. 

 

Again this wouldn't be an issue if maybe if Democrats didn't pick terrible human beings like Algore in 2000 who lost his home state of Tennessee because of gun control or an even worse human being like Hillary Clinton in 2016 who didn't even bother to run a campaign, had to cheat to win her primary and who is loathed by her own party because of it, and has worse popularity numbers -as we speak - than the President, who is supposedly so embattled. 

 

But with the way things are going so far in 2020, I don't see the Democrats actually taking that advice, which is why the Party is collectively squealing in terror over the fact that Howard "Sonics to OKC" Schultz is running as a filthy Centrist who thinks that America is OK and we should all come together as a country!

 

What nerve!

 

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4 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

What is so hard about understanding that my vote should count no more or no less than yours?  

 

Your vote in Michigan is closer in value to the vote of someone in a state like California or Texas under the EC than it is in a direct democracy.

 

I realize it is counter intuitive but in a direct democracy votes are only 'equal in value' if a population is evenly distributed. A politician gets more return out of campaigning in the city of Los Angeles than he/she would by coming to your state at all.

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On 2/2/2019 at 11:56 AM, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

What is so hard about understanding that my vote should count no more or no less than yours?  

The Electoral College exists to ensure that. 

 

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The 2020 Panic from the Democratic Party is in full swing.

 

 

I'd say this is a legit, thumbnail sketch of the race, although polling seems wildly optimistic for Warren/Harris and under represents the incumbent President.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Donward said:

The 2020 Panic from the Democratic Party is in full swing.

 

 

I'd say this is a legit, thumbnail sketch of the race, although polling seems wildly optimistic for Warren/Harris and under represents the incumbent President.

 

 

 

I'm not sure if this is really a ringing endorsement  for Trump though. If this is going to be representative of the actual race, I imagine that we're  going to have a lot of people voting for their ''lesser of the two  evils'' candidate. I'm not sure if that's a contest that Trump can win.

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22 minutes ago, GMerlon said:

 

I'm not sure if this is really a ringing endorsement  for Trump though. If this is going to be representative of the actual race, I imagine that we're  going to have a lot of people voting for their ''lesser of the two  evils'' candidate. I'm not sure if that's a contest that Trump can win.

 

He did in 2016 you knob.

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