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T___A

US Politics Thread: Year 2 of 1000 of the TrumpenReich

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1 minute ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

Sure, Democrats had serious concerns about Iraq.  That said, there was very tepid democratic support for an invasion and occupation of the country.  Particularly without support from the UN or most of our European allies.  The Iraq war of 2003 actually represented a pretty big shift in US policy, and happened in some regards in spite of the "deep state", not because of it.  Remember, Cheney had to bully and browbeat the intel community to give him the "evidence" he needed to support the war, going so far as to set up his own "Office of Special Plans" to bypass the intel community. 

 

Check out the votes for the 2002 Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002

 

House - 82 (39.2%) of 209 Democratic Representatives voted for the resolution.

 

Senate - 29 (58%) of 50 Democratic senators voted for the resolution. 

 

Pretty obvious from the votes that the Democrats were not excited about a war in Iraq.  This despite all the pressure from the White House and post 9-11 sentiment.  The Iraq war of 2003 was totally a creation of the Bush Jr administration, particularly Cheney and his Neocon brethren. Certainly there were Democrats who supported the effort, but the notion that a Democratic Presidency would have urged a full blown invasion of Iraq is simply not believable.  

 

Opposing a policy just because the other party supports it has been the rule in American politics, not the exception. I see 58% of Dem Senators voting for the resolution as strong supporting evidence that if the President during that vote had a big (D) next to his name, it'd be swapped around. 

Counter-point to it being a big shift in policy: Initially, the war was called the "Second Persian Gulf War". I get your point with that, but I think it's important to balance that out by considering how although details of policy may indeed have shifted under Bush (hmmm... I wonder why...), there were still broad similarities.
 

Quote

Certainly there were Democrats who supported the effort, but the notion that a Democratic Presidency would have urged a full blown invasion of Iraq is simply not believable. 

 

Wanted to highlight this. You don't think that specific Democrats who supported the war, being close allies to the specific Democratic presidential candidate in question here makes that believable? I mean... Come on?

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18 hours ago, Ramlaen said:

All the people screeching and fearmongering about the Orange Man having a speech on the 4th look like assclowns now.

Not really.  We all were worried he was going to turn it into a campaign speech. Instead, he just turned it into an embarrassing speech.  Even the Russian media made fun of it.

 

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1 hour ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

Jeffry Epstein should be tied up and tossed off one of his buildings.  The fact that he was friends with both of the presidential candidates of the last election just goes to show how corrupt US politics are.  

 

Guilt by association is a brush that only paints broad strokes.

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1 hour ago, Sturgeon said:

 

Guilt by association is a brush that only paints broad strokes.

Yes, but when the broad brush slathers both, it's a bit hard to stomach.  Bill Clinton was the recipient of several plane rides from Epstein.  We has no proof that improper things happened on that trip, but still, yuck.  As to Trump, we know his attitude toward Epstein, it's been well documented for several years, and it ain't pretty.

“I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.” - Donald Trump, 2002

The Clinton's deserved to lose, but holy Jesus, the cure was worse than the disease.  Unless you think Sherman tanks liberated British airfields in 1778.

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

Not really.  We all were worried he was going to turn it into a campaign speech. Instead, he just turned it into an embarrassing speech.  Even the Russian media made fun of it.

 

The Clinton's deserved to lose, but holy Jesus, the cure was worse than the disease.  Unless you think Sherman tanks liberated British airfields in 1778.

 

Those grapes must be very sour.

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7 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

Yes, but when the broad brush slathers both, it's a bit hard to stomach.  Bill Clinton was the recipient of several plane rides from Epstein.  We has no proof that improper things happened on that trip, but still, yuck.  As to Trump, we know his attitude toward Epstein, it's been well documented for several years, and it ain't pretty.

“I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.” - Donald Trump, 2002

The Clinton's deserved to lose, but holy Jesus, the cure was worse than the disease.  Unless you think Sherman tanks liberated British airfields in 1778.

 

I've partied with people that I now hate. How do you know Trump didn't find out about Epstein's less palatable habits, and reject him? You have to go all the way back to 2002 to find a positive comment about Epstein from Trump.

And, really, is there any doubt in your mind that in a Clinton II presidency, Epstein would have gotten off the hook?

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Also another honkler.

Spoiler

 

 

"While Putin is trying to undo our elections, he is undoing elections in Europe. Look what’s happening in Hungary, look what’s happening in Poland, look what’s happening in Moldova. Look what’s happening. You think that would happen on my watch or Barack’s watch? You can’t answer that, but I promise it wouldn’t have, and it didn’t!"

 

Honk, honk indeed.

 

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My rep is now an independent.  Justin Amash has left the Republican party.  It's going to be a rather interesting congressional election here in Grand Rapids next year.  This is probably bad news for the Republicans, with Amash running as an independent, he might serve as a spoiler, tilting the election to a Democrat for the first time in my lifetime.  This area is usually the safest of safe seats for Republicans, but having a strong independent candidate siphoning votes from the Republican candidate could make it a competitive district.

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1 hour ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

I find it hard to express how unexcited I am about the prospect of Biden winning the Democratic nomination.

ALL the Democratic candidates so far seem to be engaged in some bizarre,  socialist dick waggling contest.

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