The Kalashnikov Family: Details Grand and Obscure

[Alex C.]

The new thin bolt:

 

 

 

Thin stem bolt:

 

 

The bump rivet that starts the bolt's rotation (instead of an extension on the bullet guide):

 

 

Guide riveted:

 

 

Receiver guts:

 

 

Handguards w/shield:

 

 

Big threads for the big brake. Also bayo lug:

 

 

Gas block differences:

 

 

Notice lightening cut:

 

 

BCG lighter because of cut:

 

 

AKM vs. AK100 bolts:

 

 

AK100 bolt stem thickness:

 

 

AKM stem thickness:

 

 

AKM left:

 

 

Top cover is same thickness as receiver:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alex C.]

Would be happy to take requests for weights and measurements in here.

 

But we have a few more to cover: Galil (classic), Galil Ace, Valmet M76, an AK74M, and most interesting to me a Saiga sporting rifle (brilliant rifles really, and a great example of how to adapt a military rifle for sporting purposes). Would also do stuff like the VZ58, FNC, and Sig 550 for the sake of comparison.

[Alex C.]

So next up we have the humble Saiga. The Saiga is a sporting rifle Kalashnikov Concern markets towards hunters and such. Really short history: They introduced them in the 70s but they didn't sell, then companies like Valmet made the Valmet Hunter, Norninco with their Hunter, and then in the 90s the Russians got back in the game. The Saigas sold well and are seldom seen in stock form. Most of the Russian AK rifles you see in the USA are just converted Saiga rifles, which is by no means a bad thing. All the parts are there and it doesn't take much to get these into a more military configuration.

 

 

They moved the trigger back on Saiga rifles relative to the military kalashnikov to accomodate the sporting stock:

 

 

 

 

Handguard secured by a screw instead of a clamp. If I were going on a hunting trip with this rifle I would loctite this sucker on:

 

 

Most puzzling thing. The saiga rear sights are only adjustable to 300 meters, and every adjustment is moved a click up (100 is where 200 should be and so on). I dont know why they did this, nor do I know why they are different colors:

 

 

Even if you painted on your own numbers it wouldn't get you very far:

 

 

Saigas are not threaded:

 

 

 

Notice the safety lever's "dimple". There is no relief cut in the receiver to rest the safety. The safety slides off the receiver to be held in place. I don't know why they did this:

 

 

 

Bolt hold open:

 

 

 

Not triggered by last shot. Really just a strange and unnecessary feature IMO:

 

 

To be importable, Saigas have no bullet guide. The magazine itself does the job the guide normally would:

 

 

 

AK100 series top cover and spring assembly:

 

 

No sear engagement surface, but enough meat to utilize the bolt hold open:

 

 

 

Solid piston:

 

[Alex C.]

 

Newer style extractor:

 

 

Spring loaded firing pin for commercial ammo:

 

 

 

Where shit gets weird. Look at this fucking clownshoe of a trigger group. Linkages and all that nonsense. Mikhail must have hated this!

 

 

Hammer released:

 

 

 

Distance of hammer to trigger is almost bullpup level of nuts:

 

 

Bump rivet:

 

 

No bullet guide:

 

 

Barrel has relief cuts for standard AK101 handguard:

 

 

Ported gas block. No accessory lug:

 

 

Russian "Y" stamp:

 

 

 

 

 

 

So that's really about it. These are neat rifles, and a great example of how a military firearm can be successfully adapted into a conventional sporting arm. They are not going to win any accuracy contests, but this one is no less accurate than my new production Mini 14 (and they were cheaper before the stupid Obama import ban). This one will hold 2.25-2.5 MOA with good quality match ammunition (yes, I actually wasted match ammunition one day seeing how good a Saiga could shoot with an optic) and you could do better with handloads. However the trigger is about as bad as any bullpup I have messed with and that really holds it back. For anyone curious I paid $700 in August of 2018 for this and it was in like new condition. I bought it because they will never import any more of them and I thought the price will only go up as time goes by. Also I may do a 101 conversion down the road, but for now I am happy with it.

[Xlucine]

Why is a normal bullet guide verboten?

[Alex C.]

1 hour ago, Xlucine said:

Why is a normal bullet guide verboten?

 

In 1989 an import ban was put into place barring foreign military style rifles from entering the country. Companies did all sorts of goofy stuff to get around it (thumbhole stock and milled off bayonet lugs). However rifles could still have original magwells that would accept military magazines.

 

In 1997 the ban was strengthened by a Clinton executive order declaring guns that could accept military mags as "non-sporting" and hence fell under the import ban. The Saiga cannot take military mags because without the guide, rounds just slam nose-first into the bottom of the barrel. Hence, the Saiga mags are proprietary and have the built in (err, molded in) bullet guide.

[Collimatrix]

@Silah Report, you got anything to add to this?

[Alex C.]

This thread is not dead. I have just been out and about. New additions coming soon including the Israeli stuff and 5.45 rifles.

[Alex C.]

Teaser coming for 74 stuff:

 

 

 

 

 

My most basic impressions:

The triangle stock is awesome when the weather is nice. When it is hot they burn your cheek off. When it is cold they give your cheek frostbite.

The folding polymer stock is awesome and stores a cleaning kit.

The ribbed dust cover is cooler looking, but I'm a sucker for retro styling.

Palm swell on the wood is thicker than on the polymer.

 

[Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect]

@Alex C. I picked up a saiga in 223 for $220 back in 2007 or so. 

 

Yes Sporter configuration was odd. It worked fine enough. My barrel had a 1 in 12 twist rate. I once put a pso Russian Optic on it, 6x I believe, and noticed the 75 grain match stuff was hardly on paper. Did much better with 62 grain and under. 

 

3 inch groups are about as good as I could do. 

 

Swapping out for a tapco trigger and normal AK parts worked well. I kept the handguard, mainly because I liked how it looked and felt. 

 

Steel 12 round galil mags work without modification in a saiga. 

 

Polymer 35 round galil mags needed the shoulders trimmed, but they worked too once that was done. No bullet guide necessary. 

 

I did horrible things to mine and paid a guy to install an AR15 magwell adapter into the gun. It would lock into the gun like an AK magazine and then you could use standard AR mags. This included having to install a bullet guide into the trunnion. 

[Alex C.]

1 hour ago, Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect said:

@Alex C. I picked up a saiga in 223 for $220 back in 2007 or so. 

 

Yes Sporter configuration was odd. It worked fine enough. My barrel had a 1 in 12 twist rate. I once put a pso Russian Optic on it, 6x I believe, and noticed the 75 grain match stuff was hardly on paper. Did much better with 62 grain and under. 

 

3 inch groups are about as good as I could do. 

 

Swapping out for a tapco trigger and normal AK parts worked well. I kept the handguard, mainly because I liked how it looked and felt. 

 

Steel 12 round galil mags work without modification in a saiga. 

 

Polymer 35 round galil mags needed the shoulders trimmed, but they worked too once that was done. No bullet guide necessary. 

 

I did horrible things to mine and paid a guy to install an AR15 magwell adapter into the gun. It would lock into the gun like an AK magazine and then you could use standard AR mags. This included having to install a bullet guide into the trunnion. 

 

Man I remember when those rifles were $300 and everyone kind of wrote them off, but a small minority of people really did some cool stuff with them. Had I known the ban would have driven up prices so much I would have bought a damn crate!

 

I would put my .223 Saiga up against my Mini 14 any day. Both are very capable rifles and fun to shoot. IMO the Saiga is a great ban-state rifle.

[Alex C.]

So I collect AK mags and recently acquired a rare (in the USA) Russian Izzy AK103 polymer mag!

 

 

So I thought I might do magazine weights and measures. But first, the progression of the Russian 7.62x39 Kalashnikov magazine (minor variants not included):

 

 

From left to right:

First pattern "slabside", AKM stamped "generic", Aluminum waffle "paratrooper", RPK magazine (40 rounder), AKM "bakelite", Modern polymer AK103

 

Weights of magazines:

 

 

Slab:

 

 

Generic:

 

 

Aluminum "paratrooper":

 

 

RPK 40 rounder:

 

 

AKM bakelite:

 

 

Modern AK103:

 

 

 

 

Now for comparison, random magazines for other rifles:

 

Vz58:

 

Colt production M16/M4:

 

 

Izzy AK74 bake:

 

 

Current production Izzy Ak74 "true black":

 

 

M4/M16 Magpul PMAG:

 

 

 

 

Table of weights:

 

7.62x39 AK:

Slabside AK: 482g
Generic Stamped: 318g
Aluminum Waffle: 192g
RPK: 382g
Bakelike: 250g
Modern AK103: 202g

 

Non 7.62 AK:

VZ58: 184g
Colt (new) M4: 112g
AK74 Bakelite: 236g
AK74 Modern black: 196g
M4/M16 PMAG: 136g

 

 

Weights from heaviest to lightest:

 

 

 

 

[davidgeller]

That's a lot of information you got there.