The M4 Sherman Tank Epic Information Thread.. (work in progress)

[ZloyKrolik]

Any idea what this is?

 

Found it here:https://www.reddit.com/r/tanks/comments/4z9ebv/what_variant_sherman_is_this_it_seems_to_have_an/

 

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

Any idea what this is?

 

Found it here:https://www.reddit.com/r/tanks/comments/4z9ebv/what_variant_sherman_is_this_it_seems_to_have_an/

 

 

Thrown together museum tank, early small hatch hull with a late T23 turret and M1A1C gun. 

[EnsignExpendable]

But why is there a Lee cupola on the commander's hatch!?

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

It is a cupula from an m48, and for the sAme reason, the museum could not get the

Proper parts. No factory build Sherman looked like that.

[Walter_Sobchak]

It is a cupula from an m48, and for the sAme reason, the museum could not get the

Proper parts. No factory build Sherman looked like that.

An M48 Cupola with a .30 call machine gun.  What a mis-mash.

[Vanagandr]

On the Shermans powered by radial engines, any idea how they prevented hydraulic lock?

[DogDodger]

Before operating, the driver was supposed to turn the engine by hand a couple times.

[Vanagandr]

Hydraulic lock being detected, it seems like it would probably be difficult to drain. It's probably fair to assume though that the people who designed it would not be totally ignorant of radial engines and would have spark plugs easily accessible. There's a handle somewhere attached to the crankshaft for turning it then?

[renhanxue]

Swedish opinions on the Sherman, tl;dr version (one of these days I'll translate the full report): reliability great A++ would buy again, steering's good, operational range's good, terrain driving's fine but the track pattern on the M4A4 is unsuited to winter conditions and makes it very slippery and risky to drive on icy roads (recommend mounting spikes to the track as standard winter equipment). Overall a very rugged vehicle, crews liked the spacious interior and well illustrated manuals. Easy and comfortable to drive, easy to train conscripts on. Turret cold as heck in winter, engine fans suck in cold air through the hatches.

[EnsignExpendable]

Sounds basically identical to the Soviet opinions. What did they think about the .50 cal on the roof? The Soviets fucking loved that thing but took forever to make a domestic version.

[renhanxue]

The reports (two) I have are automotive only, unfortunately. I'm actually not sure if they even had ammunition for the things. I know two of the four Shermans purchased didn't have any main guns, and of the other two one had the 17-pdr and one had the 105 mm howitzer.

[LostCosmonaut]

Why didn't the Swedes pick up any surplus Shermans during the late 40s? Seems like some E8s would have been a better idea than having unupgraded m/42s and 38(t) m/41s stay on until the 50s. Or were they hoping that the Leo project or something else would pan out?

[Meplat]

Hydraulic lock being detected, it seems like it would probably be difficult to drain. It's probably fair to assume though that the people who designed it would not be totally ignorant of radial engines and would have spark plugs easily accessible. There's a handle somewhere attached to the crankshaft for turning it then?

The handle is a long shaft carried on the vehicle's external stores.

 

The crank actually turns the engine over through the starter, via a "huck" (dog) style clutch on the back end of the starter.

Hydraulic lock is a major issue only if the engine tries to turn over fast. Via the crank, you are gently turning it over, and except for the most extreme case, the oil will be sent back where it belongs, or into the exhaust collector ring.

[renhanxue]

Why didn't the Swedes pick up any surplus Shermans during the late 40s? Seems like some E8s would have been a better idea than having unupgraded m/42s and 38(t) m/41s stay on until the 50s. Or were they hoping that the Leo project or something else would pan out?

Bureaucracy moving slower than sales offers, mainly. E8's weren't for sale, but in early 1947 the inspector of the armored troops was very keen on trying to pick up an offer of 200+ former Canadian Rams of various types for the hilariously low price of 1200 British pounds per tank (they cost something like 25k new - you could get something like 50 surplus Shermans for the price of one new-build strv m/42). They even went as far as to line up a new TO&E for the armored forces in case they could get those (the new TO&E included retiring all those silly Czech tankettes and the strv m/38 and 39's), but the offer expired while people were scrambling to get approval from higher in the organization. The commander of the army at the time was especially uncooperative and doubted that the tank would even have a role in future warfare (he left in 1949, but by then it was too late). Then another attempt was made later in 1947 to buy 50 Shermans for an even lower price (IIRC 7-800 pounds per tank) but they weren't in very good shape and while the army was dithering and trying to find out where to buy a sufficient store of spare parts, it had become 1948 and all surplus sales were stopped due to rising tensions.

[FilthyCasual]

Hello all. I've just recently discovered theshermantank.com while doing some personal research on a family member and Sherman tanker who was killed in Cologne. I wanted to thank you for the wealth of information provided there. I noticed the 'Tank Versus Tank' report by Lt Col Irzyk begins with an unattributed quote critical of the Sherman, I believe it's a direct quote from an article published in Life Magazine, 26 March 1945 entitled 'Battle of the Tanks'. 

 

The article offers little other than a general comparison (and a rather interesting looking King Tiger) but as it helps clarify the points made in Irzyk's report I thought it worth sharing. 

 

 

Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=L1MEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA41&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false

[EnsignExpendable]

Huh, American intel on the IS-2 was... lacking.

[Walter_Sobchak]

Hello all. I've just recently discovered theshermantank.com while doing some personal research on a family member and Sherman tanker who was killed in Cologne. I wanted to thank you for the wealth of information provided there. I noticed the 'Tank Versus Tank' report by Lt Col Irzyk begins with an unattributed quote critical of the Sherman, I believe it's a direct quote from an article published in Life Magazine, 26 March 1945 entitled 'Battle of the Tanks'. 

 

The article offers little other than a general comparison (and a rather interesting looking King Tiger) but as it helps clarify the points made in Irzyk's report I thought it worth sharing. 

 

 

Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=L1MEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA41&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

I've seen that Life magazine article before but never realized that the Irzyk article is quoting from it.  Good find!

[Meplat]

Hello all. I've just recently discovered theshermantank.com while doing some personal research on a family member and Sherman tanker who was killed in Cologne. I wanted to thank you for the wealth of information provided there. I noticed the 'Tank Versus Tank' report by Lt Col Irzyk begins with an unattributed quote critical of the Sherman, I believe it's a direct quote from an article published in Life Magazine, 26 March 1945 entitled 'Battle of the Tanks'. 

 

The article offers little other than a general comparison (and a rather interesting looking King Tiger) but as it helps clarify the points made in Irzyk's report I thought it worth sharing. 

 

 

Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=L1MEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA41&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

My sole comment, other than the semi dubious accuracy of the info is that  the article is comparing two heavy tanks against a medium..

 

Let that sink in. By '45 the Pershing  was a thing.  And yet ink and pay was spent comparing a 35 ton medium against vehicles pushing twice it's mass.

 

Either someone was really desperate for filler, or the M4 was actually a pretty damned good tank. regardless of the article's conclusions.

[Priory_of_Sion]

My sole comment, other than the semi dubious accuracy of the info is that  the article is comparing two heavy tanks against a medium..

 

Let that sink in. By '45 the Pershing  was a thing.  And yet ink and pay was spent comparing a 35 ton medium against vehicles pushing twice it's mass.

 

Either someone was really desperate for filler, or the M4 was actually a pretty damned good tank. regardless of the article's conclusions.

Comparing the M4 to the Pz IV/StuG and T-34 isn't quite as provocative. 

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

Comparing the M4 to the Pz IV/StuG and T-34 isn't quite as provocative. 

 

Plus if one thing will never change, it's that reporters will get almost everything wrong, and what they get right will most often be unimportant. 

[Meplat]

Comparing the M4 to the Pz IV/StuG and T-34 isn't quite as provocative. 

 

 

Plus if one thing will never change, it's that reporters will get almost everything wrong, and what they get right will most often be unimportant. 

 

 

And it's "M4 Vs 30+ ton heavies, and the M4 is not that bad."

Wait, WHAT?

 

Pick a theme you fucktards!

 

 

Sadly tis very fucking theme would forever cloud the M4 history... That it was, at a mere 35 odd tons not a heavy tank. (even if it could easily smokre them, etc)_

[Belesarius]

 

'Operation Shingle’

Sherman tanks of the 46th (Liverpool Welsh) Royal Tank Regiment provide fire support for men of the 1st Battalion, Loyal Regiment (North Lancashire) at Anzio, Italy, 25 January 1944. - Colorized WWII Photos.

 

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

First new post in awhile. 

 

Drivetanks.com: the most Magical place on Earth if you like Tanks, Guns, Machine Guns, or even Artillery Pieces!

Drivetanks.com is an operation out of Uvalde Texas.  Uvalde is about 120 miles west of San Antonio.  The Drivetanks.com facility is on the famous Ox Hunting Ranch, a 18,000 acre hunting ranch,  with its guest cabins, a huge lodge, and its own 5800 foot runway. If you could see warbirds at this ranch it would literally be heaven on earth!

 

 

Drivetanks.com doesn't have just a Sherman tank, but from our perspective, their Sherman is the coolest tank of the lot!

 

M4A2E8 Sherman: Just like Fury

The Sherman is the star of the show for us ! It is fully functional, with working power travers and a working main gun. All the machine guns work, and you get to shoot them as part of one of their packages.  You also get to drive the tank around and fire it's main gun if you go with the big package.

 

The M4A2E8 saw action with the Russians at the end of the war, and its M4A3E8 counter part saw all kinds of action in Norther Europe and Italy.  These tanks had the improved HVSS suspension with a wider track, giving them very good off road mobility and the improved turret and gun gave the tank the edge over earlier German tanks like the Panzer III and IV, while giving it a better chance against the rarer tiger and Panther tanks.

 

I have to say, Drivetanks.com is an amazing place for letting people drive operate the armament of this working piece of history. Nothing beats seeing an actual historic vehicle drive or fly by, a static display in a museum where you can't touch, or in some cases even take photos is just not the same.

Drivetank.coms awesome M4A2

 

Another shot of Drivetank.com's M4A2E8 Sherman, this time just after it fired it's main gun! Texas Rocks!

 

So, even by my standards this place wouldn't be the most magical place on earth just because it had a working Sherman. This place has several other working tanks, SPGs, and APCS, along with towed guns, mortars and a very large variety of firearms to shoot.  Lets list the other tanks:

 

T-34-85: This Soviet tank was the Late War Shermans Russian counterpart!

Drivetanks.com has a fully functional T-34-85 tankand it was produced just in time to see action on the eastern front. It has a working main gun and there are similar, slightly to the Sherman but slightly cheaper packages for this tank.

 

 

 

 

That's the last of the WWII tanks but they have two more modern ones.

 

Leopard 1A4 MBT: An updated version of Germany's first Post War Tank!

This tank is bigger and faster than either the T-34 or Sherman, and its gun doesn't work, and the prices on it's packages reflect this.  This tank is probably easier, and more fun to drive than either WWII tank, but just not as cool.  This tank is still in use by armies around the world.

 

 

Chieftain Mk. 6, MBT: Big and British, and their Car Crusher. 

Another tank with no working gun, this bad boy is big and tough, and therefore they use it when someone wants to crush something.  This tank went into action in the mid 60s and was still going strong into the early 80s when the Challenger replaced it.

 

 

They have a few other tracked vehicles you can drive and get to know:

 

 

German SD. KFZ. 251 Armored Half-track:  The Angular German Halftrack you see in Movies!

If you want to drive something with tracks on a budged, this is a good place to start.

 

 

Kettenkrad SDFZ Tracked Motorcycle: Yeah that wonky motorcycle half track you see towing planes in WWII Pics.

Just look at this pic! Who wouldn't want to try out this crazy German contraption!

. . .

They also have some other tank like tracked vehicles that are not tanks.

 

Abbot FV433: This SPG is made up to look like the US M109 155mm SPG still in service.

This is a self propelled artillery piece, a British one, and has a propane gun that makes lots of noise but doesn't shoot a projectile. Another option if you don't want to go with one of the deluxe packages.  The M109 the Abbot was modified to look like started it's life in the 60s and saw use in Vietnam, and modern versions are still in use by the US Army.

 

BMP 1: The first IFV

This APC with attitude was meant to do more than just deliver troops like a regular boring APC like the M113. No, the BMP delivered fewer, in less comfort, but it brought some heavy firepower normal infantry didn't have.

With this badboy, you can pack a bunch of friends into the back for a very hot uncomfortable ride while you drive! I wonder if Drivetanks.com has a award if you can make all the passengers puke!

But that's not all! They have Towed Guns, Mortars and Machine guns! Germann 75mm PAK 40 AT Gun: This puppy works too!

This fully functional German AT gun is available to shoot.  not cheap, but less than shooting a tanks gun.  This gun accounted for an awful lot of Sherman tanks during the war, but the Sherman in turn killed a bunch of them.  I'm pretty sure this gun has been on several TV shows, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

German 25mm PAK 113:  Small bang, small bucks, but it's still a BIG gun!

A little AT gun for a cheaper alternative to the bigger stuff.  not much to be said, if your coming to

 

Drivetanks.com your coming for the big boom boom, right?!

 

U.S. M2A1 105mm light Howitzer:  The 105 towed gun of the US Army for most of the WWII

This gun saw lots of action, and was a great gun for it's size.  For a modest price, you can pop a round off from this gun too!  If you want to know what it was like to serve in a light artillery battery, or just want to pop a few rounds off for nostalgia, you can do it here, and that's damn cool! The Hippies in California would freak out if we tried shooting off something this cool here!!

 

US M1 81mm Mortar:  The main WWII US Mortar!

I do not know of another place you can fire off a mortar, and that make this option awesome all on its own. The 

81mm M1 Mortar was used everywhere the US fought during the war and who would pass up the change to log a hunk of history from it?

 

 

U.S. M2 60mm Mortar: In US Infantries Mortar during WWII

This is like it's bigger brother, just with less explosive charge, less range, and less weight. Oh, and it's cheaper to shoot off.

 

 

The British ML 2inch 50mm Mortar: A small Brit Mortar

The cheapest mortar option. Small, but still a mortar!

 

Now lets talk about Machine Guns and other firearms. Machine guns are pretty damn cool. Having been around a long time, there are lots of different kinds of Machine guns, and Drivetanks.com has a plethra of them!

 

The prize of the Machine collection has to be the M134 GE Minigun.  I do not recall ever reading why they called this beast a minigun, because it's a monster of a weapon, bigger and heaver than an M2 Machine gun.   These guns are technological Marvels, and contrary to Hollywood use, not man portable in any way.  These guns have a selectable rate of fire of 3000 or 6000 rounds a minute. Your average GPMG has a 650 RPM rate of fire.  These guns use an electric motor to spin the barrels and drive the feed mechanism, in theory making them more reliable at higher RPM they run, the six barrels allowed the barrels a chance to cool, but sustained fire would melt them down.  These weapons have seen a lot of combat over the years, usually mounted on a helicopter of some type, but also on other vehicles that can haul the required ammo and have a compatible electrical system.

 

Next up on the Bad boys of the Machine list they have would be the M2HB Browning .50 caliber Machine gun.  This heavy machine gun has been in service with the US Military since 1933, and is covered in more detail in this post.  You get to shoot this gun as a part of the Sherman tank packages.

 

They have a lot of other more mundane machine guns, but come on, a machine gun is damn cool no mater the size or type.  So lets list them!

• The GE M134
• The Browning M2 HB .50 Browning.
• The M1919 .30 Caliber Machine gun (WWII light/Medium/heavy mg of US Army)
• The M60E4 7.62 Nato Machine gun (updated Vietnam Era MG still in use)
• M249 SAW 5.56 NATO light machine gun
• M3 Grease Gun .45 ACP SMG (used by US Army from 43 into the 90s)
• MG-42 German WWII machine gun 1200 to 1500 rounds per minute of fun!
• MG-34 German WWII Machine gun (this one is a semi auto version)
• H&K MP7 (modern 9mm SMG)
• MP-40 German WWII 9mm SMG
• PPsh-41 Russian WWII SMG
• PKM Soviet Medium Machine gun
• DT Machine gun (Early war soviet light MG

They also have a selection of Rifles, sniper rifles and assault rifles and a flamethrower.

• US M1 Carbine .30 caliber WWII Carbine
• US M1 Garand 30 caliber (30-06), rifle (WWII standard infantry rifle)
• M4 Carbine (Modern 5.56 Nato, US Infantry weapon)
• K98 German WWII bolt action rifle
• Mosin Nagant Russian Bolt action rifle
• AK-47 Russian assualt rifle.
•  Barrett M82 .50 caliber sniper rifle
• US M9 Flamethrower, (vietnam era, and last flame thrower used by US troops)

Yeah, a flamethrower! How cool is that?!

 

So tanks, APCs, SPGs, Artillery pieces, AT guns, Mortars, and Machine Guns! Ifyou'rer not some kind of wimp, this place really is the most wonderful place on earth. I would rather go here, at any cost versus a trip to any Disney park, Cruise, or show.   This place offers a chance to touch, use, and shoot history, hard real history.  Honestly though, if this place had no historic value at all, it would still be  damn good time, and something really you can only get in good old US of A, specifically in the great state of Texas!

 

This is all run an own by private US Citizens, and some people might think civilians running around owning tanks with working guns and tons of machine guns, and letting anyone willing to pay a chance to use them is a bad idea, well, you're wrong, and this is exactly the type of thing that makes the United States so great!

 

There is a process you have to go through to be allowed to own these items, but it's not all that hard as long as you're not a criminal and are willing to fork over the cash to the US Government, and your state and county are ok with it.  All shooting and vehicle use is only done after people are thoroughly instructed on everythings use, (the class time is all part of the fun!), and while the guest is using the tank or Machine gun, a instructor is standing right there making sure everything is safe.

 

I can think of no place I would rather go for a vacation, if I could dig up the cash, and get the wifes aproval, than Drivetanks.com and the amazing Ox Ranch!

 

If your are interested in booking a trip to drive their tanks, shoot their machine guns, or hunt big game on the greater ranch, you can contact them with the information below.

 

Drivetanks.com
1946 Road 2485
Uvalde, Texas, 78801 Email: info@drivetanks.com
Phone: (830) 351-8265 (tank)
Fax: (281) 476-7802

[FilthyCasual]

Jeep and others, do any of you happen to have a copy of 'Army Regulations No. 615-26' (AR 615-26), War Department September 15, 1942'?

 

I'm trying to find an authoritative source for the early Sherman MOS codes for some research I'm doing, but have had no luck.

[Collimatrix]

It looks like some of your captions got offset from their respective pictures.