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Sturgeon

Das Gee-Sechsunddreißig Ist Tot.

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Guys the G11 is gonna come back, I swear.

 

But seriously. This is a pretty big thing. I can't imagine a recall and upgrade being worth the effort, or even possible at all. That may result in Germany dropping the gun, and buying a new one. If H&K's burned enough bridges with the government as much as they've done with private consumers by now, they may not even hope for increased 416 sales. But then completely re-arming isn't exactly easy, either, and they can't exactly sell them off to legitimate or desirable people. So, it's going to be expensive, and they're going to either do it cheap, or do it right. Knowing that countries like Germany are under pressure from their population to keep spending down, I don't think a whole new weapons program or caliber switches being in the cards. Problem is that they have no real domestic options besides H&K. As a result, we may see FN, Steyr, or (huge longshot) Colt try to step in.

 

I wonder if this will spread, now. The EU now seems more focused on getting involved with Syria and other conflicts, and it's hard to flex your military for political capital when your stocks are going un-tested or under-maintained for this long.

I'd love to see some impetus towards the developing of new caseless ammunition. But this isn't it sadly, the Brundeswehr on paper seem like one of NATOs strongest members but like most European armies they're a hollow force with limited spending power. I think the most realistic option would be an upgrade - aluminium trunnion perhaps? Otherwise it will be an off the rack purchase from with HK (if as you say they haven't burnt all their bridges) or from FN.

Given today's news out of Colt it's unlikely we'll see them winning any major European contracts anytime soon. Colt Canada on the other hand...

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There still seems to be a bit of a misconception in this thread about what the problem with the G36 actually is. I'll copy the relevants from my post on the matter:
 

Much as H&K may protest against this, there is considerable evidence that the rifle suffers from a polymer barrel bearing. A gunsmith who requested to remain anonymous shared these images with TFB:

 

 

jrLBhkf-660x495.jpg

This picture best illustrates the deformation that can occur The trunnion itself is made of steel, but rides entirely within a polymer cradle that is integral to the receiver. If the barrel is able to shift even a little in its cradle, the rifle will lose zero.

 

ixgee0P-660x495.jpg ZJnX1hq-660x495.jpg WRYYMsU-660x495.jpg

Below, one can see how the cradle interfaces with the sighting system:

 

 

null_zpsbb7783a5-660x495.jpg

This clear plastic cutaway of the G36 illustrates the architecture of the rifle. A steel trunnion/barrel extension is permanently embedded within a polymer receiver. Attached to the polymer receiver is the optics mount/carry handle, without steel or aluminum reinforcement. Image source: hkpro.com

 

 

 

IWA-2014-HK-9.jpg

This image of an HK 243 civilian variant of the G36 highlights the carry handle/sight attachment. Due to the contrasting finish, one can see that the sight mount is attached directly to the polymer receiver, itself attached to the rifle’s barrel. Under sustained fire, the polymer may deform and the sight may lose zero.

 

 

 

OK, so first we need to get some confusing terminology out of the way. The ridged thing that's molded into the polymer H&K calls a "trunnion", but most people familiar with AR-15s would call a "barrel extension". We'll call it a trunnion, since that's what H&K calls it. So the trunnion is already steel. Would adding an aluminum mount for the trunnion solve the issue?


No, because as you can see, there is still a polymer connection between the barrel and the sights. What is needed is some way to connect the sights and the barrel via metal or something else with a very low coefficient of thermal expansion that is otherwise suitable. I am not a polymers expert so I will leave it there. I will note that colli believes the correct polymer used for the receiver could have fixed this issue - indeed, what with the EMI/WTD-91 report alleging that the receivers were doped with polyethylene, maybe H&K's test samples were made of an appropriate material, and then they skimped out later (we know they skimped out - it's whether doing so caused the issue or just made it worse that's unclear).

Does that explain the issue?
 

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Pretty damning, I wonder if they used the same kind of polymer for other contracts as well. I wonder how the Kurdish Peshmerga are finding the 8,000 Germany sent them.

 

Better than the Nagant bolt action rifles that the weapons are replacing.

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So, what are the funniest possible replacements for the G-36?  I think it would be glorious if the Germans bought FX-05s.

 

It's rather surprising how quickly this all blew up.  Was it brewing for a long time?

 

Other than Dreyse Needle Rifles?

 

Smile_trollface-3.gif

 

Just go back to how German World War 2 rifle companies were built with submachine guns and full size battles rifles supporting heavy machine guns!

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So, what are the funniest possible replacements for the G-36?  I think it would be glorious if the Germans bought FX-05s.

 

It's rather surprising how quickly this all blew up.  Was it brewing for a long time?

G11 is coming back. Get hyped.

 

But seriously.

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So, what are the funniest possible replacements for the G-36?  I think it would be glorious if the Germans bought FX-05s.

 

It's rather surprising how quickly this all blew up.  Was it brewing for a long time?

I hear SMG guns are making a pretty good copy of the FG42 now.

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So the story got worse.  Yesterday the Times (UK) newspaper ran an article saying that the British police forces equipped with the G36 may reconsider issuing the rifle if the German army drops the rifle.  Due to the Times' paywall here's a link to another article which also covers it: http://www.special-ops.org/british-anti-terror-police-are-using-assault-rifles-that-do-not-shoot-straight-in-hot-weather/

 

The whole thing is a bit laughable, the police rifles are semi-auto for a start, Britain does not have Afghanistan's high summer temperatures and when the hell are police or security forces ever going to be in a prolonged firefight?  Never, if they are they'll be calling for the SAS long before their rifle's start losing zero.  

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I would want to think worst weapons have been kept in service in militaries around the world than the G36. Though, I'm not quite the expert on guns.

 

As much as my bias against H&K wants to say there isnt... there has been and still are.

 

Examples:

 

insas-assault-rifle.jpg (Arguably the worst standard issue rifle ever put into service)

 

SA80.jpg(Though, Ironically H&K was involved in trying to fix the later variants of the SA-80/L85, reportedly it still sucks just not as badly.)

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I would want to think worst weapons have been kept in service in militaries around the world than the G36. Though, I'm not quite the expert on guns.

 

 

I have found many weapons get bad press rather than are bad weapons.  I fired a Chauchat last year, and know a number of owners of the weapon.  The weapon is reliable and accurate, and as a team weapon it caused the Germans to go so far as to put a stock on the huge 08 trying to get a weapon as effective into the hands of soldiers.  Its reputation was earned when it was chambered for an overly powerful cartridge using bad metric conversion tables and assigned to one man gun teams (it was designed for two) who were not told to clean it each day...  But if it was so bad why did the French make 175,000 of them and why did the French users love it so much?

 

The British PIAT was during WW2 hated because it would fail to recock, but it was a very effective weapon.  The M60 now has a reputation as a dog but performed very well for America for two decades.  The M14 was cancelled because it was the wrong rifle at the wrong time, but decades later it is well respected and back in issue.

 

I think the worst weapon ever issued, and it would be a problem for the Russians until the 1950s, was none at all.  Although often assumed to be a piece of fiction from movies like Enemy at the Gates, it was in fact a long standing requirement of the Russian military, Imperial and Communist.

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Well, It can't possibly be worse then the INSAS at least.

 

.....Well, maybe the variants prior to the A2 could give it a run for its money.

 

 

 

Clash of the titans, Rifle that's terribly unreliable, of questionable build quality, rewards it's user with random shots of hot oil in the eyes, and is so self aware IT decides what fire mode it will be on....

 

....VS, Rifle that's terribly unreliable, of questionable build quality, and has the magic feature of ejecting it's magazine when nudged too hard in the wrong area!

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