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Were Shermans Called "Ronsons"? No, They Weren't

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I'm not sure if this means anything or not but I've been dinking around and discovering old Coleman lantern newspaper ads from the 1970s that feature the phrase "Lights the first time, everytime". 

 

http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/23959702/

 

Most of the adverts are from mid-size dailies.

 

Obviously the term "Lights the first time, everytime" was fully established as a phrase by that point. Again, what is the origin?

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Reviving, but one of the oldies stations that plays old commercials had a Bic commercial for pens that "Write the first time, every time." I'm wondering if some confusion over Bic and their lighters had something to do with this.

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Reviving, but one of the oldies stations that plays old commercials had a Bic commercial for pens that "Write the first time, every time." I'm wondering if some confusion over Bic and their lighters had something to do with this.

Would not shock me to learn that Bic used a variant of that slogan for their lighters..

 

An aside, Ronson used to make a model of lighter called a "Comet".. Let that sink in a moment..

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Would not shock me to learn that Bic used a variant of that slogan for their lighters..

 

An aside, Ronson used to make a model of lighter called a "Comet".. Let that sink in a moment..

 

Yeah, Comets are typically covered in Ice! Pfft, way to do bad research on celestial bodies Ronson!

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Ronson should've also made a one time use self destructing lighter called the Panther with a new slogan.

 

"Lights the first time, only when you least want or expect it to."

 

its so flamable you dont even have to be hit in the front transmission or engine to be lit on fire almost immediatly

 

Turrent hit?= instant inferno

 

and dont worry, we made sure to line the sides of it with ammunition, and dont worry they can still be penned by 14.5mm fire so those IS-2s and sherman 76s wont have any problems 

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Did a follow-up. Bic trademarked the saying "Lights First Time, Everytime" in 1975, and lost in '81. The pen slogan was registered in '74, and is still active.

 

https://inventively.com/search/trademarks/73018809

https://inventively.com/search/trademarks/73018744

I did a search through Google on book references to Ronson - Sherman link, the oldest book was from 1980 by Walker Scott Dunn, who never refers to the slogan. He makes to error of saying the engine/gasoline caused fires in the M4. I can't access the whole book. Looks fishy. 

 

It seems George Forty, who is a rather prolific tank encyclopedia guy, picked up that narrative and made it widespread and included the slogan. Its odd to see different authors claim that the British and Germans are the ones who gave it the name. There is nothing coming from the '70s or earlier on anything but ronson flamethrowers mounted in the M4. 

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I busted another Sherman myth today, specifically the story about how Shermans were so good that the 1st Mechanized Corps threw away all of their T-34s and replaced them with Shermans before attacking Berlin. Except oops, turns out the medium tank brigades of the 1st Mechanized Corps have been composed of Shermans for months at that point, and I never actually found any record of a T-34 in that unit. 

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I busted another Sherman myth today, specifically the story about how Shermans were so good that the 1st Mechanized Corps threw away all of their T-34s and replaced them with Shermans before attacking Berlin. Except oops, turns out the medium tank brigades of the 1st Mechanized Corps have been composed of Shermans for months at that point, and I never actually found any record of a T-34 in that unit. 

 

I did here stories about Tankers leaving their shermans behind in Manchuria, i guess the T-34s were better at mountain passing than M4s 

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3 minutes ago, AUSTanker said:

 

Not exactly the best way to make a first here...

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Rich Anderson already roasted this fool

Quote

The bona fides of the author are somewhat suspect. The comments of his thesis advisors and others who encountered him pretty much tell it all...as does the bio he wrote himself. 

"Christian M. DeJohn is a military historian, former U.S. Cavalry Sergeant, and United States Army veteran of overseas service in Bosnia-Herzegovina, Egypt, Korea, and Germany. Called to active duty after September 11 attacks, while a member of the famous First Troop Philadelphia City Cavalry, his Army duties included gunning and driving an M1 Abrams tank, and serving as a dismounted Cavalry scout in Bosnia. His professional writing experience has taken him on adventures as diverse as flying in a World War Two B-17 bomber, climbing through the coal bunkers of the USS Olympia, recreating Pickett's Charge at the Battle of Gettysburg, reminiscing with the greatest American fighter ace of all time, and enjoying champagne with Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Andrew. 

DeJohn's articles on military and American history have appeared in newspapers, magazines, and books including the Philadelphia Inquirer, Washington Times, Main Line Magazine, Philadelphia Style, METRO, and The Dictionary of American History. He holds a Bachelor's degree in Political Science from the American University in Washington, D.C., completed all required credits towards a Master of Arts degree in Military and American History from Temple University, and has worked for the US Army Military History Institute and US Department of Veterans Affairs. He resides in the suburbs of Philadelphia, and is a member of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, American Legion, and the US Cavalry Association."

The reason he only has completed credits towrads his MA is because Temple never conferred it, resulting in DeJohn's suing Temple. Ken Estes at Tank-Net covered the reason pretty thoroughly.

"Now I remember, this guy was disruptive in class and antagonistic toward the prof, resisting any advice on his master's thesis. Greg Urwin told me a little about him and I was amazed, because Greg is a very patient and effective prof, was recently President of the Society for Military History and has great student reviews from Temple. He does know his American Military History, we can be assured."

Urwin himself commented "that the thesis was "agonizing" and that DeJohn must suffer from "Alzheimer’s disease." Urwin also wrote notes in the margins of DeJohn’s thesis. He wrote that DeJohn sounds like a "crackpot," that his arguments are "absurd," that the thesis read like "a comic book for 5-year olds," that it was "amateurish," that it was "exaggerated melodrama," "juvenile melodrama," and "juvenile rhetoric," "monotonous agony," "juvenile argumentation," a "hissy fit in print." https://www.thefire.org/as-lawsuit-come ... -stranded/ ,which oddly enough is in an article "defending" DeJohn's lawsuit, which eventually resulted in an award of $1 in damages to him.

I'd personally like to see Rich and Kenny over here, they seem to be goodboys who are also hated by Luigi which is a good sign

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11 hours ago, AUSTanker said:

 

Please send me a review copy so that I, a man unburdened by American patriotism, can give it an honest review.

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3 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

According to Amazon it's release date is may 28 and the price has been knocked down to $53.  

 

Still to rich for me, especially since odds are it's shit.

Maybe we can all throw in 5 bucks and ship it cheap once your finished reading it.

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3 hours ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 

Still to rich for me, especially since odds are it's shit.

Maybe we can all throw in 5 bucks and ship it cheap once your finished reading it.

I don't have much interest in reading it.  The only thing I find interesting about it is that some of the photos in contains were taken by Massimo Foti.  He has a pretty stellar collection of european AFV photos in his gallery.

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As I understand it, Schiffer Publishing is pretty close to a vanity press, their authors make very little on their books.  That might explain why so many of their books are on obscure facets of SS history.  Anyhow, I suspect that the author of this Sherman Scandal book is not going to be getting rich off it. 

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Hmmmm….. The one lighter that everyone seemed to have when I was on active duty (74 to 99) was the Zippo. Plenty of guys had them engraved or with the unit DUI from Vietnam or other memorable occasions. Personally, I had the pipe lighter variant (ZippoA1 ?). We even called the M132 Mechanized Flame Thrower (modified M113 used in VN) a "Zippo". And my dad had a Zippo from World War Twice that he bought during basic at Great Lakes (yes, he was a swabbie).  So there seems to be a long connection between the brand and the US military. Couple this with the "lights first time" tag line associated with it in the WW2 period and we may have had some people calling M4 "Zippos" in a few units. Add 20 to 30 years and you get a veteran or two confusing the brands and telling interviewers they were called "Ronsons" and away we go. The enthusiast press is a vast echo chamber with everyone quoting everyone else rather than doing individual research and the distortions become dug in. Examples:  M60 "Patton" or (&diety help us) "Super Patton", M151 "MUTT", M113 "Gavin" - the product of one loud mouthed cretin which has prompted this response:

 

There's this guy named Mike "Sparky" Sparks. He's convinced the M113 is the greatest thing ever and didn't need to be replaced with things like the Bradley and Stryker. Also "Gavin" isn't actually a real designation for the M113 it was a name proposed by Sparky for it but is mainly used to ridicule him.
To wit: "In more than 30 years working in the defense industry, I have never, never heard anybody use the name "Gavin" for the M-113. Not in the US nor in any of the many countries that use the vehicle. Not in the military forces, not in the companies that build and equip it, not in the groups that retrofit and repair it. This usage appears not only to be "unofficial", it is entirely fictional and I believe that you may have been the victim of a hoax or deliberate disinformation." From Globalsecurity.org.

 

Of course, you now see poseurs and wannabees speaking of "Gavins"

 

And did anybody ever call the M42 a "Duster" ? Really ?

 

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