anwaralsharrad Posted September 2, 2017 Report Share Posted September 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Bronezhilet said: I'll take that as a yes. I'll collect some data and make a new topic about it in a few hours. I will be grateful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted September 2, 2017 Report Share Posted September 2, 2017 5 hours ago, Andrei_bt said: It does not lok like ERA It's ERA according to the description from the Spanish website. It was an ERA prototype made by Santa Bárbara Sistemas specifically for the Centauro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronezhilet Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 Today I tried to figure out the size and explosive weight of Nozh. And fuck if anyone knows. Absolutely no-one agrees with one another. It's one giant mess of people either not knowing, talking bullshit or simply confusing dimensions I actually found one website which stated the sizes of Kontakt, Kontakt-5, Relikt and Nozh, but stupid little me forgot to screencap the values and now I can't find the website again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Militarysta Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 @UP Yes it's fdifficult couse tehere are diffrent linear inert whit difrent weight, size, and material - linear an HE: ChSCzKW-34, ChSCzKW-34A, ChSCzKW-34N, ChSCzKW-19, ChSCzKW-19A, ChSCzKW-19N number is size of linear and letter (or its lack) - type of linerar. More or less -two size and 3 diffrent linear types. Not mentionet explosive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Militarysta Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 On 19.08.2017 at 7:33 PM, Bronezhilet said: No. The Panzerfaust 3IT-600 most definitely has a precursor designed to set ERA off since it A) has a copper liner and B) has a highly angled liner. As can be seen in a photo I took a while ago: The Spike has a high-angle copper liner too: And as we all (should) know, the Javelin has a precursor charge that isnt concentric with the main charge, thus it cannot be a non-initiating charge. Have You consider fact that very offten models and cut-viev for exibitons are diffretn then "normal" or "regullar" weapons? Pz3-IT600 have NIP (non initiating precursor) -what is known form manufacurer pdf.... Or it was changed and now it's slow-streeching-jet but cone angle is IMHO wrong fors sucht soltuion (presnt in JAGM and other) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronezhilet Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 22 minutes ago, Militarysta said: Have You consider fact that very offten models and cut-viev for exibitons are diffretn then "normal" or "regullar" weapons? Pz3-IT600 have NIP (non initiating precursor) -what is known form manufacurer pdf.... Or it was changed and now it's slow-streeching-jet but cone angle is IMHO wrong fors sucht soltuion (presnt in JAGM and other) Yes, but these ones aren't necessarily meant for exhibition. For as far as I know these models have also been used for EOD training, so they have to be accurate. I'm not even sure the Spike was allowed to be publicly shown, but hey, I got permission to photograph it so I don't care. I thought the manufacturer pdf you linked only talked about the Panzerfaust 3T, not the Panzerfaust 3-IT-600. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collimatrix Posted September 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 @Bronezhilet and I noticed something very strange about Nozh ERA. Supposedly it's an array of linear shaped charges, right? The long rod penetrator or HEAT jet penetrates the cassette of Nozh, and sets off the explosive. This causes the shaped charges in the Nozh to do their thing. Only... that cannot work. Shaped charges don't work that way. Shaped charges need to be initiated very precisely, and from a particular point. If the chain reaction does not start in the correct portion of the high explosive, the shock wave will not collapse the liner correctly. Shaped charges have very precisely located fuzes, and features like wave shapers to ensure that the shape of the shock wave is exactly correct before it hits the liner. But as you can see, there are no obvious fuzing elements in the shaped charges of Nozh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronezhilet Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 What @Collimatrix is trying to say is that the shaped charges in Nozh don't fucking work at all. Really, damaging or obstructing the liner can fuck up the jet formation so badly that there wont be a jet formed at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronezhilet Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 Here you can see the effects of damage on a properly initated shaped charge: http://xrayct.com/documents/data/IBS19/WM07_599.pdf Read it while keeping in mind that the shaped charges in Nozh aren't initiated properly and are of debatable quality in the first place. Sgt.Squarehead 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronezhilet Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 Actually, Nozh is so bad it needs a topic dedicated to it's shit-ness. It's Arjun levels of bad. Stay tuned, topic coming soontm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 Well, there are videos and photographs of Nozh/Duplet defeating tandem charge RPGs (i.e. PG-7VR/PG-29V) and older APFSDS rounds, it's hard to discard this evidence. Maybe the common description about the crescent-shaped reactive elements is wrong or they use different/fake models of Nozh for presentations, but the ERA has a lot of potential. Btw. maybe it's in-flight shape might be more similar to an EFP. PS: In tests a linear shaped charge similar in size to what one could expect from Duplet can penetrate 20-26 mm (mild) steel at 19 mm stand-off. Above 76 mm stand-off penetration starts to decrease. At optimum (19 - 32 mm) stand-off commercial LCS' can penetrate 38 - 51 mm steel. That seems to be in line with Nozh/Duplet. Multiple LCS hts the KE penetrator and weaken it by creating notches, so it might break during travel or when impacting the armor. Initation of the LCS is obviously tricky, but it might be possible. Images from http://www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/2/3/629/htm Seems like 15 is a "fuze cable" located in the center of the module? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronezhilet Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 5 minutes ago, SH_MM said: Well, there are videos and photographs of Nozh/Duplet defeating tandem charge RPGs (i.e. PG-7VR/PG-29V) and older APFSDS rounds, it's hard to discard this evidence. Maybe the common description about the crescent-shaped reactive elements is wrong or they use different/fake models of Nozh for presentations, but the ERA has a lot of potential. Btw. maybe it's in-flight shape might be more similar to an EFP. It might 'work', but it doesn't work as advertised/claimed. The way people claim it works (the shaped charges cutting the penetrator) is physically impossible with the currently known configuration. Yes, it's more of an EFP, a really shitty EFP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 34 minutes ago, SH_MM said: .... Seems like 15 is a "fuze cable" located in the center of the module? Yes, it is a special fuze cable to detonate all charges in one ERA module. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted October 14, 2017 Report Share Posted October 14, 2017 NAF, K-1 under K-5 ERA blocks When you have explosives tiles, but no metal modules/covers for it, NAF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 https://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/617342.html Number 12 - invention proposed by Paliychuk from Odessa in 1927 - a hexagonal prisms filled with explosives that used explosion/gases to degrade incoming threat. So, it is basically ERA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted October 27, 2017 Report Share Posted October 27, 2017 https://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/621861.html ERA on BMP-2, mounted on specially made stand-of plates AFAIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted October 27, 2017 Report Share Posted October 27, 2017 Ukrainian? DPR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belesarius Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 AH.com Oh why. https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/reactive-battleship-armor.431843/#post-16132144 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrei_bt Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 Russian patent for 4C23 (for Relikt) tile - http://btvtinfo.blogspot.com/2018/03/blog-post_13.html Bronezhilet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 http://btvtinfo.blogspot.ru/2018/03/blog-post_46.html Kaktus ERA patent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 Sometimes even an ERA needs protection... especially such advanced as Nozh https://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/727701.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collimatrix Posted March 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 I find it curious that relikt and kaktus are, at least according to the patents, so normal. No tricky shapes or new ideas, presumably just very optimized materials and explosives. OK, new question for experts; What is self-limiting ERA? I've seen the term before, but I have no idea what it is or how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted March 23, 2018 Report Share Posted March 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Collimatrix said: I find it curious that relikt and kaktus are, at least according to the patents, so normal. No tricky shapes or new ideas, presumably just very optimized materials and explosives. OK, new question for experts; What is self-limiting ERA? I've seen the term before, but I have no idea what it is or how it works. ERA which quits while it's three drinks in? roguetechie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted April 27, 2018 Report Share Posted April 27, 2018 On 3/23/2018 at 8:04 AM, Collimatrix said: OK, new question for experts; What is self-limiting ERA? I've seen the term before, but I have no idea what it is or how it works. It is ERA with limited exploding area. I.e. there are documents suggesting using small pellets of explosives inside another elastic material (such as rubber or GFRP). Only one or two pellets will explode during penetration, limiting the destroyed area (in contrast to blowing up a complete ERA tile). Collimatrix 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted April 27, 2018 Report Share Posted April 27, 2018 59 minutes ago, SH_MM said: Can anybody link to this "Malakhit" thing to me that they are speaking about so i can laugh at it. "Malakhit" word used in a lot of Armata-related videos/articles/etc, which make me angry as no official name was presented and people here claim that it is called "Monolit". The R&D programm for Armata ERA is called "Bronepoezd-2" (Armored train-2), ar at least it is what is belived. Malakhit ERA was mentioned during Object 187 development, and claimed to be a base for Relikt ERA. Also Malakhit AFAIK never was pre-trigger type of ERA. Quote ....The armor of the tank was supplemented by a new complex of dynamic defense - the prototype of the current complex of the universal ERA "Relict". According to some, not entirely reliable data, the complex of protection of the vehicle was called "Malachite". and about BMPT Quote ... on the BMPT - Malachite was mounted only on one single prototype /...../ as there is no Malachite in mass production. Where all those people are getting their info on Malakhit? There are many other ERA that they could randomly pick to spread areound like Kaktus anti-tandem ERA on Black Eagle, Karkas-2 for BMP-3 and Tifon ERA for BTR-90. Also funny to see Armata photo when they were speaking about ERA with flyer plate, all i heard about it is that it doesn't use flyer plate. T-90MS shown during speech about self-limiting ERA... uhh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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