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On 4/27/2018 at 10:00 PM, LoooSeR said:

The R&D programm for Armata ERA is called "Bronepoezd-2" (Armored train-2), ar at least it is what is belived.

   Malakhit ERA was mentioned during Object 187 development, and claimed to be a base for Relikt ERA. Also Malakhit AFAIK never was pre-trigger type of ERA.

Can you post more details about these R&D programs? 

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This was discussed on the Discord a bit ago:

EkQPuaz.png

 

In ERA, there is a bit of a delay between the shaped charge penetrating the sandwich and the flyer plates of the ERA cassette actually moving enough to disrupt the jet.  Therefore, a portion of the jet (the "precursor" in technical discussions of ERA) makes it through the ERA unscathed.

 

Looking at a velocity distribution diagram of a shaped charge liner as it collapses:

MSHGSsA.png

We see that the leading portion of the jet is also the fastest portion, by a lot.  So not only does this portion pierce the ERA cassette first, it is also the hardest for the ERA to intercept because it is moving the fastest.

 

What is the most efficient way to deal with the portion of the jet that makes it through the ERA?  Hazell (2016) mentions just putting more steel behind the ERA tiles if it is going to be used on lighter vehicles.  This is also useful so that vehicles with thin armor like APCs don't HESH themselves when the ERA goes off.

But is there a more efficient way to do this?  I don't think NERA would work; the precursor will make it through largely unmolested for the same reason it made it through the ERA.  The ideal protection would be something that erodes HEAT jets very efficiently on a mass basis.  Maybe good old fashioned Soviet STEF is the answer?

Also, all of this suggests that if a shaped charge with a substantially higher jet velocity could be developed, its penetration would be largely unaffected by ERA.  Maybe something along the lines of this madness.

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36 minutes ago, Collimatrix said:

This was discussed on the Discord a bit ago:

EkQPuaz.png

 

In ERA, there is a bit of a delay between the shaped charge penetrating the sandwich and the flyer plates of the ERA cassette actually moving enough to disrupt the jet.  Therefore, a portion of the jet (the "precursor" in technical discussions of ERA) makes it through the ERA unscathed.

 

Looking at a velocity distribution diagram of a shaped charge liner as it collapses:

MSHGSsA.png

We see that the leading portion of the jet is also the fastest portion, by a lot.  So not only does this portion pierce the ERA cassette first, it is also the hardest for the ERA to intercept because it is moving the fastest.

 

What is the most efficient way to deal with the portion of the jet that makes it through the ERA?  Hazell (2016) mentions just putting more steel behind the ERA tiles if it is going to be used on lighter vehicles.  This is also useful so that vehicles with thin armor like APCs don't HESH themselves when the ERA goes off.

But is there a more efficient way to do this?  I don't think NERA would work; the precursor will make it through largely unmolested for the same reason it made it through the ERA.  The ideal protection would be something that erodes HEAT jets very efficiently on a mass basis.  Maybe good old fashioned Soviet STEF is the answer?

Also, all of this suggests that if a shaped charge with a substantially higher jet velocity could be developed, its penetration would be largely unaffected by ERA.  Maybe something along the lines of this madness.

Interesting, although I see that the designs that they tested seem to have had issues with the secondary jet turning into hot plasma and not doing too much actual penetration.

 

I suspect a more modern simulation regime could optimise the design a lot, though.

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13 hours ago, Bronezhilet said:

Problem is that your jet integrity goes to complete shit when the liner collapse speed exceeds the speed of sound in the liner material.

I also realised that the simple countermeasure to both the jet precursor and hyperjet is an actively triggered ERA tile, which just isn't the hardest thing to do anymore.

 

My thinking would be that you'd have a sensor plate in front of the main ERA assembly, seperated by an air gap. The sensor plate would trigger the ERA (with an appropriate delay) when penetrated. Use two sensor plates, and you can also set a velocity threshold below which the ERA will not be triggered. Use a small radar system and you can dispense with the sensor plate/s.

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6 hours ago, Toxn said:

I also realised that the simple countermeasure to both the jet precursor and hyperjet is an actively triggered ERA tile, which just isn't the hardest thing to do anymore.

 

My thinking would be that you'd have a sensor plate in front of the main ERA assembly, seperated by an air gap. The sensor plate would trigger the ERA (with an appropriate delay) when penetrated. Use two sensor plates, and you can also set a velocity threshold below which the ERA will not be triggered. Use a small radar system and you can dispense with the sensor plate/s.

Dingdingding we have a winner!

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