Iran commits crimes against AFV decency

[xthetenth]

"90mm gun"

"Tank destroyer"

 

IFV fighter, bad electronics fit permitting.

[Sturgeon]

IFV fighter, bad electronics fit permitting.

 

Except it dies to IFVs. Seriously, a 90mm gun is not a great weapon against IFVs. Oh sure, it can pen them just fine, but they have large caliber autocannons typically, with great fire control.

[Walter_Sobchak]

Except it dies to IFVs. Seriously, a 90mm gun is not a great weapon against IFVs. Oh sure, it can pen them just fine, but they have large caliber autocannons typically, with great fire control.

I wonder if the BTR-60 can actually handle the recoil of that 90mm gun.  If they are still using the original recoil system from a M47, I'm thinking I would not want to be in that thing when it fires.  

 

I'm thinking the best use of this vehicle is crowd control, when you want something that looks like a tank to the average person but is fairly cheap to operate and you don't actually expect to fire the main gun.  

[Donward]

The real question is how will it hold up against guys in Toyota Hi-Lux pickup trucks?

[Khand-e]

The real question is how will it hold up against guys in Toyota Hi-Lux pickup trucks?

 

Not a chance in hell.

 

[xthetenth]

Except it dies to IFVs. Seriously, a 90mm gun is not a great weapon against IFVs. Oh sure, it can pen them just fine, but they have large caliber autocannons typically, with great fire control.

I meant to make a play on god willing there. Because it'd take an act of god for it to kill an IFV.

[Toxn]

"90mm gun"

"Tank destroyer"

 

[LoooSeR]

South Africa had little bit different conditions. In case of Iran, their potential enemies have T-72s, T-80s and M1 Abrams tanks. 90 mm cannon in such situation is not so great, i don't think this gun can reliably go through T-55/Type 59 frontal armor.

[Collimatrix]

If it's slinging HEAT it can, unless they have ERA.

[Walter_Sobchak]

I'm pretty sure that HEAT was the primary anti-tank round for the 90mm.  I don't think they ever made a sabot round for it, just HVAP and APCBC.  From what I have read on the six day war, Israeli Pattons with 90mm guns were reasonably effective against everything except the small number of IS-3 tanks they encountered.  

 

To me the M48 has always looked like too much tank for too little gun.  

[Collimatrix]

To be fair, the M48 was designed with a gigantic turret ring (same diameter as M103 and chieftain) so it could be upgunned to a 105mm later on.  I think they had the T140 in mind at the time, but ended up going with the (much better) M68/L7.

[Life_In_Black]

To be fair, the M48 was designed with a gigantic turret ring (same diameter as M103 and chieftain) so it could be upgunned to a 105mm later on.  I think they had the T140 in mind at the time, but ended up going with the (much better) M68/L7.

 

I thought the M103 had a larger turret ring than the M48 and Chieftain?

[Collimatrix]

216cm, same as an M48.

 

Edit:  There might have been a test rig with a bigger ring.  The_Chieftain posted this picture a while back:

 

 

But I don't recall exactly what it is.

[Life_In_Black]

216cm, same as an M48.

 

Edit:  There might have been a test rig with a bigger ring.  The_Chieftain posted this picture a while back:

 

 

But I don't recall exactly what it is.

 

Huh. I could have sworn the M48, Chieftain, etc, all had an 80inch turret ring, not an 85inch one.

[Walter_Sobchak]

Imagine an M103 modernized in the same way some of the upgrade packages for the M60.  That would be something to see.  Although, I don't know what you upgun it to.  

[Collimatrix]

You'd make a brand new gun, I think.

 

Something the size of an M58, but running at higher pressures would be a fearsome cannon indeed.

[Walter_Sobchak]

What is the length on the M103 gun.  Is it longer than the L/55 120mm on the Leopard 2A6?

[Collimatrix]

Per this image from Hunnicutt, the T123 E1 (basically the same thing as an M58 give or take some metallurgy changes) was 301 inches long.

 

I can't find overall length figures for the M256 or L55.  The figures on wikipedia are clearly wrong, since they are just the barrel length if you do the math.

[Walter_Sobchak]

Hell, the thing has two loaders.  Lets go with a 140mm gun upgrade.  

[Xlucine]

216cm, same as an M48.

 

Edit:  There might have been a test rig with a bigger ring.  The_Chieftain posted this picture a while back:

 

 

But I don't recall exactly what it is.

 

 

The previous two photos were of the experimental 108" ring turret. They wanted to know if a wider ring made a more survivable tank. The answer was 'yes'. It was never intended to be a production turret per se, and was built purely for ballistic testing.

 

 

 

Imagine an M103 modernized in the same way some of the upgrade packages for the M60.  That would be something to see.  Although, I don't know what you upgun it to.  

 

Brits were running the L11 ~20% higher pressure and it's a lighter gun tube IIRC, so a roided M58 would be within the capability of NATO (and better than the L11, since M58 has ~20% more chamber volume). You might even be able to pierce IS-7 with it!

[Tied]

from the rear maybe

 

The Is-7 commander would laugh at you manically from all other angles

[Walter_Sobchak]

from the rear maybe

 

The Is-7 commander would laugh at you manically from all other angles

At least until he realized he had gone into battle with a prototype tank that never went into full scale production.  

[Tied]

Walter

 

Do you really think i would be posting here if the IS-7 went into full production

 

Instead of finding a way to surgically remove my shines in order to join the tank corps 

[Walter_Sobchak]

Walter

 

Do you really think i would be posting here if the IS-7 went into full production

 

Instead of finding a way to surgically remove my shines in order to join the tank corps 

How I imagine life for an IS-7 crewman went.

 

Comrade Tied, go reload remote machine gun station #1.  Then reload remote machine gun station #2.  Then #3. And #4.  And also coax machine gun # 5 and #6.  After that, be sure to reload the anti-aircraft machine gun.  

 

Good lord, you would think General Patton designed that thing.

[Tied]

How I imagine life for an IS-7 crewman went.

 

Comrade Tied, go reload remote machine gun station #1.  Then reload remote machine gun station #2.  Then #3. And #4.  And also coax machine gun # 5 and #6.  After that, be sure to reload the anti-aircraft machine gun.  

 

Good lord, you would think General Patton designed that thing.

This is the only Russian tank General Patton designed