Toxn Posted August 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Ugh, weaponsman. Not my favourite site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Hognose is a member of this site and a friend of mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted August 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Would you like me to retract my opinion? Qualify it? Issue a disclaimer? Feel free to advise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 If you don't like the site, I don't expect you to shut up about it, but I bet Hognose would appreciate your in-depth feedback. Also I had just woken up when I wrote that so it may have been a little terse. I basically meant it as an FYI to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Don't worry Toxn. I've had my issues with Hognose too. But again, I'll debate the disagreements on merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 I had not, until reading this article, realized how bad US torpedoes were in WWII. The funny part is, as bad as the early-mid war Mark 13 and 14s were, German Torpedoes were actually even worse, but you never hear about that because of SUPERIOR TEUTONIC BOOT TECHNOLOGY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collimatrix Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 ... How could a torpedo be worse than LITERALLY TURNING AROUND, STRIKING AND DETONATING ON THE SHIP THAT FIRED IT?!Not that I disbelieve you, mind. I'm just at a loss here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 ... How could a torpedo be worse than LITERALLY TURNING AROUND, STRIKING AND DETONATING ON THE SHIP THAT FIRED IT?! Not that I disbelieve you, mind. I'm just at a loss here. Several german models could also hot run like in the case of the USS Tang, however their early-mid war torpedoes had a failure rate of 30-50% to even detonate and much like the mark 14, had trouble with depth setting. It's saying alot that they managed to make a standard issue torpedo LESS reliable then the Mark 13/14, considering it was one of the least reliable torpedoes of the war for the majority of the conflict. The reason the Mark 13/14 was so unreliable is because they added a secret magnetic detonation mode, rather new at the time.... And never bothered to test it or the rest of the torpedo at all because they wanted to to remain 100% secret, clearly something exploding in hundreds, if not thousands of feet of water will have parts easily retriveable after a test with late 30s-early 40s diving tech..... I guess. Oh, that and the detonation pistol was misaligned, which somehow went unnoticed for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Don't worry Toxn. I've had my issues with Hognose too. But again, I'll debate the disagreements on merit. You've had your issues with everyone, including virtually ever single writer and commenter on TFB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 I don't have the issues with the writers. If there is a conclusion reached that bears further scrutiny or yet another crap article about double barrel Colt 45 automatics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 I have issues with some of the other writers. Juicy, secret, dramatic, reality-tv-show quality issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Not to derail, but getting reminded of how crappy Kraut-marine torpedoes were makes me thankful that evil genocidal dictatorships were too suspicious/incompetent to share their military technology with their allies. With the drubbing that the good guys took in the first part of the Battle of the Atlantic, what would have been the butcher's bill if the Nazis had good torpedoes like their Japanese allies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted August 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 I fully expect that the Nazis would have found a way to make oxygen torpedoes even more dangerous to the user than they were already. Edit: see the battle off Samar for an example of how badly things can go wrong for long lance users. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted August 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 If you don't like the site, I don't expect you to shut up about it, but I bet Hognose would appreciate your in-depth feedback. Also I had just woken up when I wrote that so it may have been a little terse. I basically meant it as an FYI to you. Thanks for the clarification. My issues with the site don't extend to discussions about torpedoes, so I will park them for the moment so as not to detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 53-65K torpedo and transportation container for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinegata Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Not to derail, but getting reminded of how crappy Kraut-marine torpedoes were makes me thankful that evil genocidal dictatorships were too suspicious/incompetent to share their military technology with their allies. With the drubbing that the good guys took in the first part of the Battle of the Atlantic, what would have been the butcher's bill if the Nazis had good torpedoes like their Japanese allies? IJN torpedoes wouldn't fit in German tubes in the first place. The best German aerial torpedo was in fact Italian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 Whatevs Zin. Next you'll be telling me I can't load the Yamamoto's ammo into the Bismark's guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShamefurDispray Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 Didn't the Imperial Russians have plans for a battleship armed with a ridiculous amount of torpedo tubes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperComrade Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 Are you talking about the 1913 Torpedo Cruiser? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinegata Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 Whatevs Zin. Next you'll be telling me I can't load the Yamamoto's ammo into the Bismark's guns. To be good the IJN torpedoes had to be as big as they were is the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collimatrix Posted September 15, 2015 Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 Was the Best Good Enough? An analysis of the type 93 in action. The author tentatively suggests that the largest asset of the type 93 was not its long range, but rather its great speed. When they were fired from a long ways off, they tended to have miserable hit probability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted September 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 This makes sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinegata Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 Was the Best Good Enough? An analysis of the type 93 in action. The author tentatively suggests that the largest asset of the type 93 was not its long range, but rather its great speed. When they were fired from a long ways off, they tended to have miserable hit probability. Firing at short range with a fast torpedo is obviously more effective, but this has to be balanced against the risk of losing the launching craft. That's why the IJN built the torpedoes to have such a long range to begin with - so they could whittle away at the USN's numerical advantage at minimal risk to their own ships. That the IJN fell short of their pre-war hit expectations does not surprise me; most armed forces tend to over-estimate their hit rates in pre-war conditions anyway. It's worth noting in fact that at least one IJN cruiser was crippled then sunk when her torpedo mount was hit by a 5inch gun from a Jeep carrier - which demonstrates what happens when you try to close the range with dangerously unstable torpedoes still onboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belesarius Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 Firing at short range with a fast torpedo is obviously more effective, but this has to be balanced against the risk of losing the launching craft. That's why the IJN built the torpedoes to have such a long range to begin with - so they could whittle away at the USN's numerical advantage at minimal risk to their own ships. That the IJN fell short of their pre-war hit expectations does not surprise me; most armed forces tend to over-estimate their hit rates in pre-war conditions anyway. It's worth noting in fact that at least one IJN cruiser was crippled then sunk when her torpedo mount was hit by a 5inch gun from a Jeep carrier - which demonstrates what happens when you try to close the range with dangerously unstable torpedoes still onboard. IIRC, the Chikuma? 5 inch shell during the battle of Samar? Because of the pure oxygen in the torps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinegata Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 IIRC, the Chikuma? 5 inch shell during the battle of Samar? Because of the pure oxygen in the torps. Close enough, it was a messy furball and no one's entirely sure who hit who. It was more likely to be Chokai which was hit by the jeep carrier White Plains. Chikuma also very likely had her torpedoes blown up by 5 inch shells too, albeit it was probably a destroyer escort which scored the hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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