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21 hours ago, S O said:


And to settle the question of mobility kill, here are test results of what a tiny 76 mm HESH (whole shell weighs only 5.6 kg, explosive likely well below 1.5 kg) does to an AFV's wheels, idlers and tracks:


That's not "impotent", even at such a relatively small calibre.

That HESH ineffectiveness against AFVs is about penetrating or spalling behind thick layered armour; the effect on stuff on the outside is usually devastating, as is the effect on thin armour (typical BMP/BTR/BMD vehicles) and of course buildings.


Thick skirts can protect a running gear against HESH/HEP to some degree, but them getting blown into the running gear can cause mobility kills as well. Hardly any Russian tanks have thick skirts (though Armata has).


WO 194-466 is pretty clear that skirting plates very effective protection for the running gear against 120mm HESH. Most russian tanks do not currently have substantial skirting plates, but right now no-one is mad enough to suggest using HESH for anti-armour work - it is not beyond russia's capabilities to add some aluminium sheeting if required.


54 minutes ago, LostCosmonaut said:

On an unrelated note, can you define "case volume" for me? I'm in a conversation elsewhere on the internet and need to look smart.


Are you planning on sipping tea out of the case?

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On 9/30/2017 at 4:20 PM, S O said:


"I want to see the calculations showing that frontal turret protection against 125mm APFSDS, frontal hull protection against HEAT and engine compartment protection against 14.5mm plus ten degrees of gun depression is possible at 40 tonnes."

MUCH higher protection levels are possible at 50 tons, this has been stated by experts like Hilmes repeatedly. The Japanese Type 10 has a bigger gun and some other weight-increasing extras and still only 44 t empty weight. PLA 125 mm are no doubt the threat that the Japanese looked at.

Besides, I wrote "at about 40 tons". That would be anything from 37-43 metric tons.




Oh man, It's a shame you're probably not coming back, because this in particular is a niche subject I would absolutely horsewhip you on.


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However, Dr. Juri E. Postnikov thinks that there’s an alternative. His Partisan One concept eschews cutting-edge tech for the ability to put huge numbers of them on the road in a quick period of time.


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On 10/3/2017 at 12:24 AM, Toxn said:

Whelp, that was entertaining.


I'm still keen on the idea of more, lighter vehicles with decent (but not world-beating) armaments, myself. So it's sad to see this guy inadvertently shit on the concept.


Yeah it really is a shame because with as hard as he advocates for such systems and the visceral seething hatred he inspires in pretty much everyone, he could singlehandedly manage to turn people against any and all such concepts.


That would be a god damn shame too because i agree with you on how awesome it would be to see such systems adopted since they'd be kinda more workable than the current approach IMO.


It's aggravating and a bit distressing that "reformers" like him sprey and sparky have actually advocated for quite a few things that really are needed thrown in alongside their other and primarily mind meltingly stupid and insane inane bullshit, inadvertently and often irreversibly tainting the good ideas just as badly as the actual bad ideas in the process!


Ideally and amongst actual professionals and thinking men this taint can be overcome quickly and with ease, but amongst the bureaucrat fobbit and pentagon pussy class such taints serve as the ideal and perfect justification for not doing the right thing!


If only the "reformers" weren't so blind to the way they enable the worst excesses of their sworn enemies (the entrenched and all powerful gatekeeping bureaucrats) by tainting the good and necessary things they advocate for mostly as a sort of maskirovka to suck in the unwary and inspire in them a confidence and willingness to trust the reformer which he then uses to overcome your good judgement when the big bag of fucking crazy comes out!

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New K-2 battle tanks to use imported transmission: arms agency



   SEOUL, Oct. 13 (Yonhap) -- South Korea plans to complete the mass production and deployment of additional K-2 main battle tanks by 2020, three years behind the original target date, due to technical setbacks, the state arms agency said Friday.

   The Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) initially sought the domestic supply of a powerpack, which comprises transmission and engine, for the second round of mass production, in preference to the German-designed one used for the previous production run, which began in 2013.

   But the indigenous transmission, produced by S&T Dynamics, failed in reliability and durability testing.


   In a report to the National Assembly's defense committee for an annual audit, the DAPA said it is pushing for the supply of transmissions from a foreign contractor. It plans to pick a domestically-produced engine for the powerpack.

   "The second mass production and deployment will be completed between 2019-2020" if the plan is approved by a government defense industry committee slated to decide in January next year, added the DAPA.

   The K-2 Black Panther is South Korea's new signature battle tank, and is designed to replace the aging K-1 battle tanks. It is one of the most advanced main battle tanks in the world.

   South Korea hopes to export the K-2, with one tank priced at around US$7.5 million.


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M-10 tank destroyers of "A" Company, 634th TD Battalion, 1st. Infantry Division firing their 3-inch guns at defenses in Aachen, Germany
October the 14th 1944. 
- (Signal Corps photo from the National Archives.)  (Colorized by Tom Thounaojam from Imphal, India)


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