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Tied, August 25, 2015 in Historical Warfare
I was there, it's the traditional parade from National Day but next time I'll stay home to watch it to TV, couldn't see much because of the crowd. Glad to see them on Chinese News. Few explanations of pictures:
1. soldier in a Piranha APC
2. re-enactement of WW I Romanian military
3. Gepard SPAAGs
4. 30th Guards Regiment "Michael The Brave"
5. Acrobatic team
6. Upgraded MIG-21 LancerR (will be retired in reserve from next year)
7. Police women detachment
8. Mountain Rangers
9. from left to right, Commander of the parade, Commander of General HQ, President of Romania
These are pics from official Ministry of Defense page:
Now it's a huge debate here that Romania is one of the last two EU countries (along with France) which still does military parades in National Day and if it's not the case to renounce at them because may be considered aggressive
It is interesting that Romania didn't downscale its military as hard as former Soviet satellites/influenced states. As far as I can tell, they're still a customer, if not just lagging behind the times a bit.
Well, here we are very displeased by the status of Armed Forces. It's a long story. There are some very good units (mountain brigades, special forces, 282th Mechanized, 81st Mechanized, Reconnaisance battalions) but not as much as we'd like and new equipment and weapons issue was neglected in last 10 years. However, from 2017 the budget will be raised at 2% (NATO standard) and national industry will re-start to supply armed forces.
Few ongoing programs:
- 3 F-16 squadrons
- new APC
- new MBT (a necessary of 300)
- multi-layered Air Defense national system
- new SPG, new SP Mortars, enganced and upgraded rocket arty, new SPAAGs, upgraded VSHORAD systems-
- new utility helo (new Pumas and possible Cougars) built locally by Airbus Helicopters Romania
IAR-95 MEIAR-95 was supposed to be the first Romanian supersonic plane. In late '70s, the initial studies for the IAR-95 supersonic fighter were started and it was meant to be a lightweight aircraft, with a single-engine configuration although one variant with two engines was also researched. The design required an engine thrust of 54 kN dry and 91 kN with afterburner, respectively. The aircraft was a high wing monoplane with side air intakes. One of the proposed designs featured two fins.Although the structural design of IAR-95 was in a quite advanced stage and was trialed in wind tunnels, the lack of availability of a suitable engine led to the cancellation of the initial IAR-95 project in 1981 although some sources claim that research continued until 1984. Six mock-ups were created and studied, the last variant design (no. 6) being eventually picked for development.Last variant:IAR-95 technical data, for the study which was dropped in the middle 80s:Length overall: 14.75 mHeight overall: 4.95 mWing Span: 8.7 mWing area, gross: 26 m²Wing sweep at quarter chord: 35 deg.Empty weight: 6800 kgMaximum take-off weight: 10000 kgAnd loadouts variants for early 80s version:The supersonic fighter program was restarted in later '80s. First layout of the new design was named IAR-101 and had the general layout similar to the early IAR-95, but had a thicker fuselage, four hard points under the wings.here is the presentation of the project on designing institute page:http://www.incas.ro/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=139&Itemid=122The next step was IAR-S, several models were built and tested in the wind tunnel. Those were either with a single engine or with single fin, two engines and two fins, single and two-seater. The single engine two-seater was presented as a multirole aircraft. The model of this last IAR-S layout is still kept today in the entry hall of INCAS. Other loadouts were taken into consideration (unfortunately I couldn't find a bigger pic):The program was very ambitious and posed a real challenge for the Romanian aviation industry. In order to test the capabilities to produce such an aircraft, the decision was taken to build first the IAR-95ME technology demonstrator but all was halted at the moment when a MIG-21 engine was supposed to be put in the mock-up for more tests. Ceausescu apparently did not wanted to grant the funds necessary for the development of this plane.A lot of equipment was created in order to be used on CAS IAR-93, light attack IAR-99 and what was supposed to be multirole IAR-95 ME which was supposed to replace MIG-21 and MIG-23. This equipment included various ECMs, chaff, flares, RAV-RS IR missile, radar guided AA missiles, A921 (Romanian copy of KH-23 enhanced locally), submunition bombs (e.g. clusters, thermobaric) and even a anti-radiation missiles (one was in development and seeker was completed and it was intended to be trialed on Kh-23 until a larger and more powerful missile would have been developed).. Only IAR-99 finally received such enhancements since IAR-95 was never produced and IAR-93 third upgrade was dropped and plane was retired in early 90s.Project presentation:IAR-95 ME technical data after late 80’s research:Length: 16.0 mWing span: 9.3 mHeight: 5.45 mWing area: 27.9 m²Empty weight: 7,880 kgMax T-O weight: 15,200 kgWeapons max. load: 3,200 kgPowerplant: One Tumansky R-29-300 turbojet rated at 122kN with afterburners.Furthermore, Chinese were also queried for J-7 engine but without success.More pictures:Interesting load-out; double launcher for missiles was actually produced:IAR-95 S2 bombardier:Allegedly the plans were given to Chinese after 1989 and JF-17 was created starting from this project. Of course, it may be just a conspiracy theory but I found some discussion on this website (but I don't understand even a single letter )http://defense-arab.com/vb/threads/27922/Few ideas from the Romanian article:- Romania queried for the license for MIG-21 or Mirage F1, nothing was obtained thus the decision was to build planes locally; before 1945 Romanian produced own military planes.- The engine was the main problem; first track was to obtain Spey from UK (which was on Phantoms) during the cooperation for BAC 1-11 and Viper Rolls-Royce engines (which were for IAR-99 and IAR-93).- Soviets refused any discussion about MIG-21 or MIG-23 engine- Considering the deal with UK, they offered some support and some technical help at some point.- Meantime cooperation with Yugoslavia become closer and even if they had more access to Western technology it wasn't possible to obtain an engine suitable for a 2 Mach plane although General Electric J-85 was also a variant to be discussed (from F-5)- Spey engine was supposed to be used on a two engine ASF project (one of the 6 variants); there are some pics in this album of the general concept:http://imgur.com/a/KeV3dOne SEAD missile was researched in late 80s. Seeker was approved but was never trialed on a missile. Initially an A921 (KH-23M local development) was deemed to be used to test the seeker. In the image below is an IAR-95 launching A921 missile toward a target
Very interesting. Did the Romanians ask the Yugoslavians about the possibility of a joint project as they had done with IAR-93?
As far as know Romania did not wanted to make another joint project with Yugoslavia for mainly two reasons: Tito started later in his life an approach on Soviet Union, fearing that state will be dismantled after his death and also refused to share technological upgrades of IAR-93. Yugoslav Orao was much more developed, truly CAS fighter while Romanian one was only capable to launch iron bombs or submunitions (e.g. clusters) and ability to launch KH-23 for example was possible later than Yugoslav equivalent.
Here is a post about IAR-93 which I made on another forum, you may find it interesting:
IAR-93 VULTUR or J-22 ORAO (Yugoslav variant):Yugoslav early loadout:Romanian early loadout:An extensive technical description is available here:http://www.incas.ro/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=135&Itemid=118Variants in service in RoAF:IAR-93P1 (or A variant)IAR-93P2 (or same A variant) – both pre-series variants.IAR-93MB Vultur - 1982 (MB stands for “Basic Engine” which means this was the basic variants and first two were pre series); 2x 23 mm, 3 x 250 kg and 2 IR AA missiles load, 5 x 250 kg HE or 4 x LPR-57mm-32;IAR-93B Vultur – 1985, entered service 1987; with afterburners; biggest number of built planes and used by RoAF was of this sort; increased internal fuel capacity, upgraded hard points and revised wing, including leading edge extensions. Also, the ventral fins, inboard wing fences and forward fuselage strakes were removed. This variant can be loaded with 5 x 500 kg iron bombs since its engines were more powerful.The SEBAv submunition dispenser was developed for the IAR-93 and it was intended to be produced in 3 variants, SEBAv 1, 2 and 3 which were either clusters or anti-infantry submunitions. Also it was meant to incorporate Romanian made chaff, flares, IR traps, jammers who were incorporated in IAR-99 upgraded variant or MIG-21 upgrade Lancer A/B/C. Also, similar with Yugoslav ORAO it was meant to use guided missiles/bombs in later 80s/early 90s but eventually it was decided to be retired. Knowledge was used to upgrade IAR-99 with Israeli help.Armament:• 2 x 23 mm GSh-23L twin-barrel cannon in lower front fuselage, below engine air intakes, with 200 rds/gun; gun camera and GEC-Marconi D282 gyro gunsight• up to 2,500 kg (5,511 lb) on 5 pylons• BM 500 bomb• BEM 250 bomb• BE 100 bomb• LPR 122 rocket launcher• LPR 57 rocket launcher• PRN 80 rocket launcher• AA-2 Atoll / R-3S AAM (license-built in Romania as A-91) - only on some IAR-93BArmament only on the J-22 ORAO• BL755 cluster bombs• AGM-65 Maverick TV guided AGM• AS-7 Kerry / Kh-23 Grom AGM• AA-8 'Aphid' AAMIt was used in Yugoslav wars:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soko_J-22_OraoFew videos:
IAR-99 SoimThis is probably the most successful plane project, it is still in service today and went trough various upgrades and variants. A new plane based on this one, with a new engine, for advanced trained/light attack but this isn't important for actual scope of this post.IAR 99 "Șoim" (Hawk) is an advanced jet trainer and light attack aircraft capable of performing close air support and reconnaissance missions.Development of the aircraft began in 1975 and it entered series production in 1987. Until 1989 17 Soims were delivered to Romanian Air Force.this is an early 90s plane, apparently without upgrades:Basic IAR-99 went trough 2 upgrade programs:First one was in partnership with Israel in 1992. IAR-109 Swift was equipped with HOTAS (Hands On Throttle and Stick) controls, wide angle head-up display and ring laser gyro inertial navigation system. This aircraft had integrated both Eastern and Western weapon systems. Its export variant was the IAR-109TF, which also had secondary light attack capability. However in 1994 this programme was interrupted.Second one, which is now operational was an upgrade programe and first upgraded aircraft made its maiden flight in 1997. In 1998 the Romanian Government ordered upgrade of IAR-99s. These upgraded aircraft were designated as the IAR-99C. Here is a photo of a plane with Python AA missiles. Aircraft has Israeli avionics package compatible with 5th generation fighter systems:Romanian Air Force operate a total of 12 upgraded IAR-99C Soim and there is an intention to add a new plane with a new engine, improved fuselage etc.There is much available online information about this plane. First link is the page of the designing institutehttp://www.incas.ro/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=134&Itemid=125Second link is the page of the producer:http://www.acv.ro/products_en.php?m=1&s=1Plane on display at the producer's premises with weapons:
So to summarize, these were the projects:
IAR-93 Vultur was a close air support, ground attack and tactical reconnaissance aircraft, with secondary capability as low level interceptor. Combat capable two-seat version used also for advanced flying and weapon training. Started to fly in later 70s and was withdrew from service in later 90s. Before 1989 it was decided to be upgraded with equipment that was researched for IAR-95 (radar, avionics, missiles).IAR 95 Spey/ME/S was a supersonic lightweight multirole fighter which was meant to replace MIG-21 and MIG-23; it was never completed because a suitable engine couldn’t be procured or produced under license.IAR-99 was a trainer/light attack plane which was supposed to replace L-29 and L-39ZA. It is in service today with an upgraded variant able to launch guided missiles.
Although little is known about the planning of RSR (Romania Socialist Republic) military, I think the aim was to make it selfsufficient and standard because also a lot of other stuff was built like IR AA RAV-RS, A-921 air-ground missile (enhanced Kh-23), SEBAv submunitions launchers, radars, active jammers, chaff, flares etc.
It is obvious to me that Romanian planners kept an eye on Western weapons and cooperated with China.
You can see the riveted-on extension of the PSL receiver in this picture, again showing that Romanian Cold War military engineering basically consisted of taking Russian designs and making them longer.Compare with a typical stamped AK receiver:
You can see that they've stuffed a much bigger trunnion in, extended the magazine well dimple, moved the magazine catch and fire control group backwards, and then realized that they ran out of space and spliced on some extra length at the back with that riveted-on plate.
I'm not an expert but I think it is much more different than Soviet SDV:
It was designed to be used by average recruit and was present in all branches: border guards, mountain troops, infantry, mechanized infantry, recon teams, paratroopers; since it was developed after 1968 it was deemed to be different from Soviet variant in order to be impossible to use without Romanian ammo (which packed more punch).
It is indeed different than the SVD it resembles; mainly in that it is worse. SVD is a purpose-designed marksman's rifle, PSL is an RPK that's been kludged into a marksman's rifle. Ammunition should be completely interchangeable with all 7.62x54R used anywhere, with the proviso that ammunition with a longer burning propellant can overgas the bolt carrier and cause it to bottom out against the rear of the receiver, which could loosen the rivets holding on the extension.
The Yugoslavian M76 is a much better effort at turning the basic AK action into a longer-ranged weapon.
good picture of the TR-85
I have many many pictures of Romanian armor from1989, if there is interest I can post them here. Also I can continue to post here too the stuff I am posting on Wargame Red Dragon if it is interest from you guys.
This is SH, of course there's an interest.
Paratrooper all day clothes (early 80s):
Caporal, 64th Para Regiment, Boteni, 1982
On the photo is written "With love" and a signature. Summer outfit, probably early 80s
Picture with Para training probably from an Army magazine, 80s:
Border guards shoulder patch:
Mountain hunters training 80s (probably Army magazine):
Evolution of Mountain Hunters equipment:
Guards and Protocol Regiment recruits during 1989 events, easily to recognize after their white belts:
Probably a signal unit, 1976:
1980, propaganda picture, infantry squad (red signs near neck, not sure how to call ém in English):
1983, MIGs during Unified Forces Exercises:
1989, probably infantry, hard to say without colors:
1989, PSL and scopes were quite common even in the armored/mechanized units:
1989, Sergent-major, infantry:
Probably early 90s, Recon unit, Danube Delta:
Youth Defense of Country, propaganda picture:
middle 80s I thin, Patriotic guards propaganda picture:
80s, propaganda picture, Patriotic Guards led by Army officers during exercises:
1969, one Mountain Hunters battalion parade after receiving the honorific name "Avram Iancu"
Thats interesting in my experience the Romaians have never strayed away from Nationalism. Your national anthem kicks ass
There are a lot of myths about Romanian nationalism. But last year we elected German ethic president of Lutheran with a wide majority 54,43% from a presence of 62,04% while the Romanian demographics give an 88,2 % Romanian ethnic and Orthodox majority. But let's not hijack this discussion, if you want we can continue on RO_MANIA topic. Funny, we think here Russian anthem sounds much better.
As I said there are a lot of myths about Romanian nationalism but there isn't any single party in Parliament (or near the limit of 5%) with such a platform or something to resemble with a nationalistic platform even remotely. There was a nationalistic candidate in 2000 (Corneliu Vadim Tudor) but he had 20% in presidential elections because of the fragmentation of right wing and the fashion of anti system voting, other than that he was perceived more as a clown and never got more than 7-8% which were mostly votes of the communist nostalgic communists. There are small extremists groups (but those are everywhere) but their impact is negligible, 99% of average citizen is not even aware such groups/platforms/organisations/parties even exist.
If you are speaking about historical Nationalism than I think Romania does not evolve over the pattern of the newly created European modern states. Here you can find a brief history of Romanian nationalist, it's quite objective although a bit old:
But generally nationalistic political figures are now regarded as ridiculous and there's no serious sign that nationalism will be a theme in Romanian politics.
A Russian historian speaks about Vlad The Impaler. There are some exaggerated assertion there, not sure if to underline some things or make stuff more exciting
Kaplan's new book is about Romania. Overall good but some amateuristic views there despite the fact he visited Romania since 80s.
Romanian troops on field exercise with RPG and a wheeled Maxim!
This is not Romanian Army but Patriotic Guards
They used a lot of outdated weapons like:
Orita sub machine guns
Czech Samopal SA 25
Main mission in case of war was to liaise with Border troops and form light infantry brigades which would have been used for defending cities and urban areas (they were trained for this type of mission) and they were trained to use light weapons, demolition charges, guerilla tactics.
It looks like the creator of this thread was banned ...dunno if is good or bad. I just wanted to point some errors in his posts, especially in the pictures he posted, some of them are Yugoslav, Soviet, East-German, nothing to do with Romania. Also some so called scouts are obviously mountain rangers considering their beret.
Anyway, I posted on Wargame forums the info I gathered for an eventual Romanian deck; however, the information might be of interest here as well and my research is still work in progress. It is amazing how little systematized info is available and how paranoid the secrecy still is in some areas. You'll find some different approaches than the rest of Warszaw Pact armies.
Interesting. Didn't realize that the Romanians used the steel 5.45x39mm magazines.
What's the deal with that picture of the Md. 65? The magazine looks like it's for 7.62x25mm.
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