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LoooSeR

Syrian conflict.

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This temporary coallition of the mighty US capitalists and the poor Kurdish Marxists is a great curiosity for all the historians to come. 

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3 hours ago, Beer said:

This temporary coallition of the mighty US capitalists and the poor Kurdish Marxists is a great curiosity for all the historians to come. 

   I expected this event to happen 2 years ago, actually. Not sure how much US is going to back away from Syria, but this is not that bad. Kurds and Turks will have some time with each other, that will probably teach some of Kurds certain things.

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15 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

   I expected this event to happen 2 years ago, actually. Not sure how much US is going to back away from Syria, but this is not that bad. Kurds and Turks will have some time with each other, that will probably teach some of Kurds certain things.

 

They didn't learn anything from Afrin, did they? This events will only lead to temporary occupation of another mostly Kurdish areas of Syria by Turks where the unit of temporality is one eternity just like with Cyprus. 

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3 minutes ago, Beer said:

 

They didn't learn anything from Afrin, did they? This events will only lead to temporary occupation of another mostly Kurdish areas of Syria by Turks where the unit of temporality is one eternity just like with Cyprus. 

   Yeah, i didn't saw any serious changes in SDF and similar organisations after Afrin was lost, or changes in policy. I suspect that Russia and Syria are just sitting in "wait mode" and don't obscure Turkey just to bring back Kurds to Earth and show what is it - to be alone. Those guys managed to piss off probably all sides of Syrian conflict, i seriously expected more done against them and earlier.

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Quote

Turkish aviation strikes Kurdish forces in Syria

According to Al Mayadeen, the bombs fell on the headquarters in the city of Al-Malikiya. It is noted that strikes were carried out in the area of Tell Tavil.

There is no information about the victims.

 

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20 hours ago, Beer said:

This temporary coallition of the mighty US capitalists and the poor Kurdish Marxists is a great curiosity for all the historians to come. 

Not a historian by trade, but still no curiosity here.

 

One name.

 

Obama.

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7 hours ago, Pascal said:

Not a historian by trade, but still no curiosity here.

 

One name.

 

Obama.

... that doesn't tell me anything. In fact, Obama managed to keep US further away from Syria then Trump.

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1 hour ago, LoooSeR said:

... that doesn't tell me anything. In fact, Obama managed to keep US further away from Syria then Trump.

Sorry but that's not true. First of all Obama started the mess (from American point of view), the supplies, funding and training for various opposition and jihadi groups and last but not least made USA allied with a group of people USA themselves declare terrorist and with whom they shared nothing except one common enemy (PKK aka YPG in Syria). The main issue with that is that the second YPG enemy was a key US ally sitting on Bosphorus. After that Obama brought US troops to Syria to guard the sand around Al Tanf. Add to that the story of the unsuccessful Turkish coup and following near split of Turkey and NATO. That was a chain of disasters which will hurt in a long time to come. Trump just inherrited what was essentially a closterfuck already and tried to dance somehow betwen his own promisses and views and the pressure from the internal and foreign partners. Whether he could safe more is questionable but it's fair to say that often he was in a loose-loose situation not by his own mistake. 

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13 minutes ago, Beer said:

Sorry but that's not true. First of all Obama started the mess (from American point of view), the supplies, funding and training for various opposition and jihadi groups and last but not least made USA allied with a group of people USA themselves declare terrorist and with whom they shared nothing except one common enemy (PKK aka YPG in Syria). The main issue with that is that the second YPG enemy was a key US ally sitting on Bosphorus. After that Obama brought US troops to Syria to guard the sand around Al Tanf. Add to that the story of the unsuccessful Turkish coup and following near split of Turkey and NATO. That was a chain of disasters which will hurt in a long time to come. Trump just inherrited what was essentially a closterfuck already and tried to dance somehow betwen his own promisses and views and the pressure from the internal and foreign partners. Whether he could safe more is questionable but it's fair to say that often he was in a loose-loose situation not by his own mistake. 

   Obama didn't launched direct attacks against SAA, which is rather big step from usual proxy games. In case of support of rebels/militants i suspect that he was just bending to other forces within US political theatre (which is in line of my impression of him being "weak" leader). All that doesn't make him look good or as a peacemaker, but i want to note that after 2013 Eastern Ghouta chemical attack he didn't launched 105 cruise missiles at Syrian bases or buildings in the middle of Syrian capital.

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6 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

   Obama didn't launched direct attacks against SAA, which is rather big step from usual proxy games. In case of support of rebels/militants i suspect that he was just bending to other forces within US political theatre (which is in line of my impression of him being "weak" leader). All that doesn't make him look good or as a peacemaker, but i want to note that after 2013 Eastern Ghouta chemical attack he didn't launched 105 cruise missiles at Syrian bases or buildings in the middle of Syrian capital.

105 missiles destroying one building. That was a clear example of how to try to safe face and in fact cause nothing significant. Hundreds of TOW missiles had far bigger impact on the war and caused massive casualties and material looses to SAA. That Tomahawk stunt did basically nothing. 

 

It's also not true that Obama didn't launch direct attack against SAA. Please remember that due to USAF attacks Deir-ez-Zor nearly fell. That alone would be a huge blow to the SAA way worse than anything Trump did. 

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9 minutes ago, Beer said:

105 missiles destroying one building. That was a clear example of how to try to safe face and in fact cause nothing significant. Hundreds of TOW missiles had far bigger impact on the war and caused massive casualties and material looses to SAA. That Tomahawk stunt did basically nothing. 

   You forgot about number of combat planes destroed that SAA was running as much as possible in Shairat airbase. On top of that US plane shot down Su-22 bomber, which doesn't help SAA at all. Or how americans shelled ISIS hunters together with some of our guys when they were moving to gas plant after deal with Kurds. Also, supply of new weapons didn't ended with Trump getting president position, rebels started to get shiny new Bulgarian Grad rockets in numbers (for example).

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9 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

   Well, outside of destroying number of combat planes that SAA was running as much as possible in Shairat airbase. On top of that US plane shot down Su-22 bomber, which doesn't help SAA at all. Or how americans shelled ISIS hunters together with some of our guys when they were moving to gas plant after deal with Kurds. Also, supply of new weapons didn't ended with Trump getting president position, rebels started to get shiny new Bulgarian Grad rockets in numbers (for example).

As far as I understood the issue of those several Wagner guys killed by US was that they got themselves into a local tribal struggle. In my understanding that whole incident had nothing to do with SAA or Russian mission. Local tribesmen simply paid those guys to help them take the fields without having an agreement with anybody and support from anybody. USAF acted strong and from their point of view well because it stabilised the staus quo on the Euphrates for a long period of time. 

 

Regarding the Shairat attack. Trump didn't declare the red lines. Trump simply had to act somehow. Can you imagine he would do nothing? I don't think he could afford that. Again few destroyed planes made far less in the course of the war than thousands of TOW missiles before. 

 

By the way after such a long time has anyone an idea what was the purpose of the USAF striking SAA surrounded by IS in Deir ez Zor three years a go? 

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2 minutes ago, Beer said:

/.../

Regarding the Shairat attack. Trump didn't declare the red lines. Trump simply had to act somehow. Can you imagine he would do nothing? I don't think he could afford that. Again few destroyed planes made far less in the course of the war than thousands of TOW missiles before. 

   Well, in 2013 Obama didn't do anything close to what was done under Trump. Weapon supply to militants existed during both Obama and Trump administration.

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2 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

   Well, in 2013 Obama didn't do anything close to what was done under Trump. Weapon supply to militants existed during both Obama and Trump administration.

Let's agree that we disagree. 

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2 minutes ago, Beer said:

Let's agree that we disagree. 

   There is nothing to agree or disagree. Chemical attack in 2013 - Obama done nothing. Khan Sheykhun event with Trump ended up with US directly attacking Syrian forces, that are already in not best shape. During Obama US planes didn't attacked SyAAF planes directly. During both administrations militants were/are getting weapon supplies, now with MRAPs and MRLS rockets. Part about weapon supply is probably not directly reason of US policy, but they still don't block it either in any form. 

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