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Walter_Sobchak

Transmissions and final drives

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On 6/15/2017 at 3:02 PM, Xoon said:

Felt like sharing this gem:
http://www.ffi.no/no/Rapporter/08-01220.pdf

 

A report on hybrid electric vehicles. 

 

A neat idea here is to use the hybrid electric system to power a ETC gun. This could solve the power issue, at the cost of no or reduced mobility during firing. 

 

Xoon,

 

Thank you very much for this PDF! It's extremely useful, thought provoking, informative, and the focused comprehensiveness in it's coverage of hybrid vehicles for military use without the extraneous stuff that doesn't apply.

(like self congratulatory smug preachiness, moral exceptionalism, and the other bullshit topics about hybrid anything attract)

 

As I'm reading it,  I am actually gaining clarity on stuff that resources like technology of tanks only managed to confuse and frustrate me about even further.

 

There are several people off this site I'd like to pass a copy of this to if you are OK with my doing so.

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22 hours ago, roguetechie said:

 

Xoon,

 

Thank you very much for this PDF! It's extremely useful, thought provoking, informative, and the focused comprehensiveness in it's coverage of hybrid vehicles for military use without the extraneous stuff that doesn't apply.

(like self congratulatory smug preachiness, moral exceptionalism, and the other bullshit topics about hybrid anything attract)

 

As I'm reading it,  I am actually gaining clarity on stuff that resources like technology of tanks only managed to confuse and frustrate me about even further.

 

There are several people off this site I'd like to pass a copy of this to if you are OK with my doing so.

Feel free to share it as much as you want, anything I find for that matter.  It's not mine anyways. 

 

Found it at Forsvarets forskningsinstitutt's site (Norwegian Military Science Institute).

 

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I found this quite interesting, and I would like people to share their opinion on this:

 

 

In short, magnetic gearing. Zero contact between the two "gears" meaning "no friction", no need for lubricant, very reliable and claimed efficiency of 99% at high speeds and "much higher at lower speeds compared to conventional gearing. 

 

What this means is that you can have a final drive with almost no wear and a very long lifespan, if we do no count the bearings. It also has a side effect of slipping when the torque goes past the rated torque. This means that the drive would disengage instead of breaking itself. I think this works well with electric motors, considering their long lifespan, which often needs a gearbox to optimize the torque. 

 

The company realized this and apparently made a Psuedo-direct drive, integrating it into the motor and claim a much better torque density. I think this would be quite useful for AFVs to reduce the size of the engine bay. 

 

 

They also made a magnetic CVT:
imgsize.php?w=265&img=MAGSPLIT-on-TEST.J

imgsize.php?w=265&img=MAGSPLIT2-on-build
Should be self explanatory for anyone that knows what a CVT is. Claims to be 32% more efficient that a conventional gearbox.

 

The only disadvantages I can think of is higher price and needing to keep the magnets below their Curie point. 

 

 

 

And we have magnetic bearings too:
en-after47-1.jpg?ts=1355199050

 

Simply, they are like magnetic gears, only as bearings. They can support a theoretically infinite RPM, with no friction. They can operate in a vacuum and in very hostile environments. 

 

They come in two types, active and passive. Active bearings use sensors and electromagnets in a feedback loop does a "tug of war" to keep the object in the center. A passive system uses permanent magnets. 

Some include a backup bearing in case of a failure. Same disadvantages as above. 

 

 

This could make for a system with almost zero friction, no lubricant and a very long lifespan. In theory, non of these parts would ever need to be replaced, some maintenance would be needed to remove pill up of dirt and dust.

With a magnetic coupling, you could also have a sprocket that does need to compromise the armor, as it can transfer the power through it magnetically. 

 

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_bearing

http://www.magnomatics.com/pages/technology/pseudo-direct-drive.htm

http://www.magnomatics.com/pages/technology/low-ratio-magnetic-gears.htm

http://www.magnomatics.com/pages/technology/magsplit.htm

http://www.magnomatics.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_coupling

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Transferring power through the hull would screw with the efficiency - for conductive armour you'd induce eddy currents, and for non-conductive armour you'd still have a big "air" gap to deal with. Probably not worth it for AFV's, but if it eliminates the shaft seal then this could be very useful for submarines (depending on the EM signature)

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1 hour ago, Xlucine said:

Transferring power through the hull would screw with the efficiency - for conductive armour you'd induce eddy currents, and for non-conductive armour you'd still have a big "air" gap to deal with. Probably not worth it for AFV's, but if it eliminates the shaft seal then this could be very useful for submarines (depending on the EM signature)

Forgot that a big metal plate works as a conductor. 

 

Still, the air gap should not be too bad if something like ceramic are used. Alternatively, a composite sandwich of conductors and isolators could be used, like NERA.

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Share some less-known information about cold war period tracked vehicle transmission

 

162347cuznu3p9wzlrwnp8.jpg

162308c85nc5kkrnng8l6i.jpg

Mithubishi transmission MT75 for STB, later known as Type 74.

The basic layout of MT75 is similar to the CD-500 transmission on M41 light tank, used by JGSDF in a short period after war.

But the Japanese tank designers prefer mechanical gearbox rather than hydramatic gearbox, they use a electro-mechanic high-low range instead of a torque converter. The high-low range part is described as "1次変速"(range first stage).

The steering mechanism is a single-radius, double differential type, operated by engaging steering clutch, also resemble the CD-500. 

 

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163000k592xi9pa958aoff.jpg

202358gvfmcnb7b3t944nt.png

 

Allison X-700 transmission, a 800-hp class transmission to replace XTG-411 on T95 medium tank in 1960s. 

Trials were successful but finally never adopted. The Army decided to develop a 1500-hp class transmission for XM803. 

X-700 then evolved into X-1100 transmission. The X-200 and X-300 were basically smaller variants of X-700. 

X-1100 users: M1 and its variants; Korean K9 "Thunder"; Turkish T-155 "Firtina"

X-300 users: Warrior IFV; CV90 series

X-200 users: M113 upgrade (A2 standard)

 

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153258zeaxmpe9un9onzp8.jpg

124158c8cb8qzvm5q0mztv.jpg

Allison XHM-1500-B2, a hydrostatic-mechanical transmission developed in early 1970s. A competitor against X-1100 but less successful. 

Different parts were shown in different color. 

Orange: power input and forward-reverse shifting mechanism;

Blue: hydrostatic-mechanical speed range (mechanical planetary gears were not shown in cutaway);

Red: hydrostatic differential steering system; 

Green: output shaft and planetary gears. 

 

 

Hope you enjoy these pics. 

Edited by Monochromelody

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8 hours ago, Andrei_bt said:

Great ! Thanks! Looking info about Abrams diesel engine transmission.

 

Abrams diesel?  Do you mean diesel package proposed by General Dynamics a couple years ago?  With the MT 883 engine?  I'm not sure exactly what transmission they had the MT883 paired with, but I suspect it's something like this: http://www.allisontransmission.com/docs/default-source/specification-sheets/11119_atm_5250mx_sales_sheet.pdf?sfvrsn=2

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42 minutes ago, Andrei_bt said:

Thanks! Not only "diesel package proposed by General Dynamics a couple years ago"  also 70-s era competition.

Mostly train of gears of transmission.

The General Motors XM1 prototype used basically the same transmission as the Chrysler XM1, the Allison X1100.  The Gas turbine was coupled with the X1100-3B, the diesel AVCR-1360 was paired with the X1100-1A.

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Going through the stuff I pulled out of my father's house, I found a document on X1100 transmissions.  It's basically a paper copy of a powerpoint so it's a bit light on info, but I have scanned a few pages that had interesting data. There is a lot more, let me know if you want more scans of details.

 

x1100-1.jpg?w=680

x1100-2.jpg?w=680

x1100-3.jpg?w=680

 

x1100-4.jpg?w=680

 

x1100-5.jpg?w=680

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      The Real World Rudely Intrudes
       
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      A Wehrmacht M.A.N. combustotron Ausf G
       
      We'll take some whacks at everyone's favorite whipping boy; the Panther.
       
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      Panther Ausf A tanks captured by the Soviets
       
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