General Naval Warfare News/Technology thread.

[LoooSeR]

 

[Mighty_Zuk]

https://defence-blog.com/navy/israels-iaf-wins-tender-finnish-surface-surface-missile-systems.html

 

IAI (not IAF) won a Finnish tender for the supply of Gabriel V anti-ship missiles.

Not much is known about them, except for what IAI wrote here shortly:

http://www.iai.co.il/2013/34406-36714-en/BusinessAreas_NavalSystems_AdvancedNavalAttackMissile.aspx

 

In its early history, it had quite a glorious combat record, sinking practically the entire Syrian and Egyptian navies in 1973. However these early variants were later withdrawn and replaced with Harpoon missiles.

Interestingly, the Harpoons in Israeli service are very old and Israel chose not to have them upgraded, possibly implying they are making the switch to Gabriel missiles.

Indeed, recently the Gabriel V missiles were test fired from Israeli naval vessels but no information was made public.

 

Perhaps now we will get a better view on things.

[LostCosmonaut]

Only seeing this in one source, but would be pretty crazy if true; http://www.janes.com/article/81584/argentina-considers-resuming-nuclear-submarine-project

 

Restarting construction of a boat that you started building in the 1980s and sticking your first naval nuclear reactor in it seems dumb even for Argentina.

[Mighty_Zuk]

14 hours ago, LostCosmonaut said:

Only seeing this in one source, but would be pretty crazy if true; http://www.janes.com/article/81584/argentina-considers-resuming-nuclear-submarine-project

 

Restarting construction of a boat that you started building in the 1980s and sticking your first naval nuclear reactor in it seems dumb even for Argentina.

Thinking they could match the military power of the UK is even dumber.... wait, it's not.

[juretrn]

On 7/7/2018 at 3:02 PM, Mighty_Zuk said:

Thinking they could match the military power of the UK is even dumber.... wait, it's not.

The way things (budgets) are going for RN they'll soon have numbers parity in nucs. 

[Ramlaen]

"Sailors load a Harpoon anti-ship cruise missile on to the Los Angeles-class fast-attack submarine USS Olympia (SSN-717) as part of the biannual RIMPAC maritime exercise, July 3."

 

Edited July 14, 2018 by Ramlaen
bigger pictures

[Xlucine]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44871788

Quote

Spain's new submarine 'too big for its dock'

An attempt to deploy a new submarine for Spain's navy has run aground again, after it emerged it cannot fit in its dock, Spanish media report.

The S-80 boat was redesigned at great expense after an earlier mistake meant it had problems floating, and it was lengthened to correct the issue.

Spanish newspaper El País now reports that after the changes, the docks at Cartagena can no longer fit the vessel.

 

 

They had to add an extra 10m on a 70m boat, so now it doesn't fit. The beeb also claims that the cost has reached £900mil; so a bit cheaper than a proper SSN from barrow and a hell of a lot cheaper than a modern SSP from australia. Further evidence that SSNs don't really cost more than SSK/Ps, unless you're willing to accept proper poverty-spec componenets

[Ramlaen]

USS Olympia (SSN 717) Participates in SINKEX

 

 

[Xlucine]

On 7/27/2018 at 6:28 AM, Ramlaen said:

USS Olympia (SSN 717) Participates in SINKEX

 

 

 

Torpedo tubes made in canada?

[LoooSeR]

In other news our MoD managed to fuck up Navy rearming and repairing/modernisation plans. A lot of ships repair and modernization take way too fucking long. Article about our biggest ship:

https://vz.ru/society/2018/7/27/934366.html

Quote

   Why the most important ship for the Navy was a record long construction

   The Navy will receive the first new ship of the far sea zone, the main frigate of Project 22350 Admiral Gorshkov, since the USSR. The ship was built twelve-odd years - and it became almost a record shipbuilding long-term construction in the newest Russian history. Why most important ship for the Russian Navy built so long - and who is to blame for this?

 

   On Thursday in St. Petersburg, a reception certificate of state tests of the first frigate project 22350 Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Gorshkov was signed. On Saturday, the frigate will become part of the Russian Navy. This means the end of an extremely long, extremely expensive and extremely problematic process of creating a ship. Such a long-term construction is all the more annoying that the Russian Navy is in great need of these frigates. Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, Admiral Vladimir Korolyov said a year ago that in the future the frigates of this project would become the main Russian military ships of the far sea zone.

 

   Sins of the builders

   "Gorshkov" was laid on the Northern shipyard (SV) on February 1, 2006. Then, among the specialists, this caused almost an euphoric attack - Russia started building ships of the far sea zone in accordance with the Russian project, developed from scratch. The fact that the ship of the near-sea zone of a small displacement (the 2350-ton corvette "Steregushchy"), which was laid down there four years ago, was not even then launched (this will happen in mid-May), was not perceived as an anomaly. Then it was looked upon as an inevitable payment for the devastation of the 1990s, which caused the loss of competences, which should be restored if not tomorrow, then the day after tomorrow.

 

   However, neither tomorrow nor the day after tomorrow (unlike, say, the Admiralteiskie Shipyards, Sevmash or "Yantar"), it was not possible to restore the competencies of the SV. Moreover, they have not been restored to this day, although probably the best crisis manager of USC, Igor Ponomarev, is actively working on this. The head frigate project 22350 was launched on October 29, 2010, four years and nine months after the launch. And this is the period for which it would be possible to completely build and transfer to the customer not only the frigate, but also the destroyer (in Soviet times, the SV was building Project 956 destroyers on average for 4.6 years).

 

   In 2010, the Ukrainian crisis was not even on horizon yet and everything was in order with the engines, but the mooring trials began two years and nine months after the it was launched. The factory tests began year and 3.5 months later. To think, mooring trials (during which the work of mechanisms, systems, devices, equipment was checked without departing from the quay) lasted 15.5 months! In general, the construction of a ship of the second rank from the laying to the beginning of the factory test took eight years and 9.5 months - about three times amore than what was planned.

   For reference: the construction of the first Soviet heavy aircraft carrying cruiser "Kiev" from the start of building to the transfer to the customer took five years, five months and seven days.

 

   Sins of weapon makers

   At the end of last year, one of the two diesel engines broke down on the "Gorshkov". To repair the engine specialists Kolomna plant took about 2.5 months. However, this annoying episode was just one of the "thirty-three misfortunes", the main and most fateful of which became problems with the anti-aircraft missile system (SAM) "Poliment-Redut."

 

   The main fault of the developer of the SAM, the Almaz-Antei concern, is the refusal of the preliminary marine full-scale tests of the complex before its installation on the  frigate, Project 22350.

   In the USSR, such tests were conducted rigorously. For the development of the Fort, the Azov (1234BF), Uragan system - Provorniy (Prospect 61), and Kinzhal MPK-104 (1124K) were specially converted. Despite the fact that the development of shipborne anti-aircraft missile systems still did not keep pace with the construction of Soviet third-generation projects, which were taken into the Navy unarmed, tests on test ships accelerated the adoption of the SAM for armament.

 

   Why "Almaz - Antey" refused from many years of practice, we can only guess. Perhaps the management of a successful enterprise as a whole overestimated its capabilities, deciding that the complex could be quickly brought to an operational state during the tests of Admiral Gorshkov. Perhaps, the Defense Ministry decided to save on an experimental ship. Maybe something else.

 

   About what problems had to be faced on the tests of the latest SAM, it is not officially reported, it is known only about the very fact of the presence of problems (both in 2016 and in 2017). There were rumors about already eliminated problems with the radar with phased array, and about unresolved with anti-aircraft missiles that "fell on the third second." At the same time, the magazine "Technics and Armament" in its report with MAKS-2017, referring to the developers, asserts that, as of July last year, the 9M100 short-range missile tests were much more successful than the more complex 9M96 (medium and long range) , which are part of the SAM.

   There is information that the shooting of the "Gorshkov" in the North before the inter-fleet transition to the Main Naval Parade in Kronstadt was recognized as "partially successful." If so, futher work on SAM and tests can not be avoided.

 

   Sins of the customer

   Experimental design work "Polymen-Redut" on logic should be an integral part of the R&D under the conventional name "Fregat pr. 22350". However, the chief contractor (Northen Shipyard) in this case was not in a position to somehow influence the co-executor (Almaz-Antey), since they did not have the necessary competences and powers. The fault of the Defense Ministry in general and the Navy in particular lies in the fact that they did not synchronize the development of the components of the ROC in time and did not strictly enforce the deadlines. And this led to the disruption of the state defense order on one of the most important lines of military construction.

/.../

Vzglyad also did pretty good article on rest of ships, will post translation some time later.

[LoooSeR]

@Marsh

Quote

   The prototype of the ekranoplan "Orlan" will be created within the framework of the current state program of armaments, said Deputy Prime Minister Yury Borisov.

"The State Arms Program 2018-2027 has an experimental design work," Orlan, "which provides for the construction of a prototype," he said.

 

   Ekranoplans will be equiped with missile weapons for patrolling sea areas.

"The main functional is the Northen sea route, where the infrastructure is not very developed, it can barrage, close these areas," Borisov emphasized, noting that the ekranoplans could also be used, for example, in the Caspian and Black Seas.

Stupid ekranoplans money wasting go go!

[Ramlaen]

The Harpoon fired by the USS Olympia breaching the surface and flying off.

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Ramlaen

[Marsh]

14 hours ago, LoooSeR said:

@Marsh

Stupid ekranoplans money wasting go go!

Hi,

I didn't say I thought Ekranoplans were a spectacularly good weapon system, I just love their retro-futurist designs. 

 

 

 

[Adraste]

 

The Phalanx CIWS of the entire Sa'ar fleet has been removed for good. Instead, the IN put a strange structure at its place on this particular Sa'ar 4.5. 

 

 

[Mighty_Zuk]

On 8/1/2018 at 11:39 PM, Adraste said:

 

 

The Phalanx CIWS of the entire Sa'ar fleet has been removed for good. Instead, the IN put a strange structure at its place on this particular Sa'ar 4.5. 

 

 

It's a VLS for Barak missiles. Not sure whether Barak 1 or 8.

[Mighty_Zuk]

Rafael sort of shows its decoy, communication, and hard-kill systems.

 

 

[Shomer]

3 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

It's a VLS for Barak missiles. Not sure whether Barak 1 or 8.

 

The system can not be mentioned yet, but it is neither Barak 8 nor Barak 1.

[Mighty_Zuk]

2 hours ago, Shomer said:

 

The system can not be mentioned yet, but it is neither Barak 8 nor Barak 1.

Then C-Dome it is.

[Xlucine]

On 8/6/2018 at 1:15 PM, Mighty_Zuk said:

Rafael sort of shows its decoy, communication, and hard-kill systems.

 

 

 

Combining decoy and hard kill is a pretty neat idea

[Mighty_Zuk]

7 hours ago, Xlucine said:

 

Combining decoy and hard kill is a pretty neat idea

I thought so too, but before this video aired I thought the Torbuster actively searched for the torpedo and chased it. 

So it won't really help against supercavitating torpedoes for example.

[N-L-M]

I find it more than mildly amusing that the depicted submarine has all its masts extended while submerged and maneuvering.

[Mighty_Zuk]

16 minutes ago, N-L-M said:

I find it more than mildly amusing that the depicted submarine has all its masts extended while submerged and maneuvering.

Welcome, my dude. Indeed, quite odd. An even more odd error RAFAEL made in their past marketing videos was showing a Merkava 4 firing a HEAT-FS round, from a rifled gun... It actually took time and effort to edit in the rifling, just to make a mistake.

The heresy is at 1:20

Spoiler

 

 

[N-L-M]

That's some prime heresy right there. But that's what happens when you let marketing do their work unsupervised.

[LoooSeR]

Not good with AShMs. Some AShMs showed at Army 2018, i guess inside there are number of hammer and sickles. 

 

Spoiler

 

[N-L-M]

54 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

Not good with AShMs. Some AShMs showed at Army 2018, i guess inside there are number of hammer and sickles. 

 

  Hide contents

 

Left to right:
SS-N-26 STROBILE (Yakhont)
SS-N-3(c?) SHADDOCK (P-5)
SS-NX-24 SCORPION (P-750/Kh-80)