Sturgeon Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 SPOILERS FOR TFA IN THIS THREAD SPOILERS FOR TFA IN THIS THREAD SPOILERS FOR TFA IN THIS THREAD SPOILERS FOR TFA IN THIS THREAD SPOILERS FOR TFA IN THIS THREAD SPOILERS FOR TFA IN THIS THREAD SPOILERS FOR TFA IN THIS THREAD SPOILERS FOR TFA IN THIS THREAD SPOILERS FOR TFA IN THIS THREAD SPOILERS FOR TFA IN THIS THREAD SPOILERS FOR TFA IN THIS THREAD SPOILERS FOR TFA IN THIS THREAD SPOILERS FOR TFA IN THIS THREAD SPOILERS FOR TFA IN THIS THREAD ---------------------------------------------------- I think Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is a good addition to the current film Dark Side character lineup. So far, we've really only seen Sith that were way more competent/composed to fit Yoda's description of the Dark Side. Ren-Ben there is clearly struggling with his feelings and controlling his connection to the Force, which is exactly what Yoda told us would happen in Empire. Sure, we've seen Anakin and Luke struggle with the Dark Side, too, but (especially in Luke's case) for the most part both those characters each had too strong of a personal character to throw little hissy fits like Kylo does (obviously, this doesn't really come across very convincingly for Anakin in the prequels). I could see how some people would find this annoying, but it actually closes a major paradox of the Dark Side in the film universe.I knew before I bought tickets to the movie that Han was gonna die. Of course Han is going to die, that was probably in Ford's contract. Belesarius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 I'm fairly satisfied with Kylo Ren as a badguy as I am with most of Empire New Order heavies. I mean First Order. New Order is a British New Wave band. Whereas the First Order is just a bunch of guys talking with British accents... Can we just call the First Order the Empire? I don't necessarily object to the killing of Han Solo. Hell, they were originally planning to do that all the way back in The Empire Strikes back. And the part where Han gets dipped into the Carbon Freezing device was emotional and meant something. This, this... This was fucking bullshit. As soon as Kylo Ren wandered out onto that catwalk above the bottomless abyss, I had a bad feeling about what was going to happen. And to have him die to the stupid "You're my son and I love you, nope, the Sun just got burned out and now I'm evil again and will stab you dad" bullshit is not the way fucking Han Solo deserves to die. Have him go down with his blaster blazing. Have one of his crazy mad dashes into the heart of danger finally come up short. Hell, have him do the old bit where he has to stay behind in order to buy enough time for Chewie and the new kids to escape. Have Han Solo's death mean something. But no, it didn't. Han Solo's death didn't mean shit. It didn't move the plot along. Hell, none of the main characters even really fucking cared. Yeah, Han Solo, a General in the Rebellion, hero of countless battles, the guy who had Luke Skywalker's Six when he blew up the Death Star just died. Oh, we'll make a sad face for a few seconds and... Cut to R2D2 waking up and everyone cheering off the Millennial Falcon as it takes off with the plucky girl. And yes I wrote Millennial on purpose, since it's only Millennials who have the attention span of a goldfish who think that this is the right choice and who'll lap it up. Han Solo is the most important character in the Star Wars franchise. The franchise would have been a bomb without Harrison Ford. His death is a hundred times more important than Obi Wan Kenobi's and Yoda's combined. And its basically treated as some footnote or some stage to pass in order to progress to the next level. Absolute bullshit. Blackhorse_Six 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Han shoots dies first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted December 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Not sure why you think his death didn't move the plot along, since Ben's decision to kill him marked his commitment to the Dark Side.I will agree with you, though, I thought everyone (including at least one stormtrooper!) standing around to watch, slackjawed, made very little sense from a storyboarding perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 The whole scene was unsatisfying particularly since it was telegraphed from a mile a way. If you want the father/son You Never Were a Good Father/Now I Shall Become Emo Vader!!! scene then fine. If you want Han Solo to die, then fine. But to have him die like that was fucking lame. If you want to do it right have Kylo Ben... Kylo Ren? Fuck it. Have him and Han have their father son moment. But have him threaten the new kids with some sort of death because he's captured or Force held them or some Sith shit. And then have Han try to talk Kylo back to the Light Side of the Force. Have it fail and then have Han go to the blaster after he realizes that his talk won't work. Have Han Shoot First and this distracts Kylo enough to stop Force choking the New Kids, gives Chewie enough time to usher the New Kids away. A few poignant moments for the New Kids to see Han go down. And then Exit. That is how you make a meaningful death scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Enable animated gif avatars you fuckhead. thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 The other thing I noticed was lack of overall threat that this new Death Star Wait. Star Killer Base? Whatever the fuck that is. Who the fuck names something Star Killer Base. You know what? Fuck that. I'm calling it the Death Star Mark III. There was literally zero fucks given by the Resistance Rebels about this new even bigger weapon. Oh, hey. A bunch of planets got blown up that we the audience give zero fucks about and that we were only made aware of for a totality of 18 seconds. Which planets were they? Were they the Senate planet? I think they were. I'm not really quite sure. But some planets got blown up. Whatever shall we do? Hey we got a Stormtrooper guy and we'll sneak onto the planet, take down its shields and send a couple dozen X-wings in to blow it up! I mean we give so little fucks about this threat that we aren't even sending in A-Wings or Y-wings. Because by this point, blowing up Death Stars is so second nature that we don't even need to make a plan and everyone in the briefing room already knows how to blow up Death Stars. Oh, and in the process, we'll somehow find the plucky Jedi girl and run into Han's son AND run into the Captain Stormtrooper girl on a space station the size of a planet. And that's how it actually occurred in the movie. Edit: Fuck, 80 foot tall Andy Serkis Snoke. Snoke? Is that really his name? Fuck it. Andy Serkis' character doesn't even give a shit when General Whatsis Face tells him that the Death Star Mark III is getting blown up again like the first two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted December 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Well it's pretty hard to not be butthurt be after President Bigfoot takes a visit to your Alaskan cabin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 You're damn straight! The butt hurt is flowing through me like the morning after an all-you-can-eat Taco Bell binge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted December 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 I mean you're right about pretty much everything you said, it just didn't bug me as bad as it evidently did you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tied Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 I'm fairly satisfied with Kylo Ren as a badguy as I am with most of Empire New Order heavies. I mean First Order. New Order is a British New Wave band. Whereas the First Order is just a bunch of guys talking with British accents... Can we just call the First Order the Empire? I don't necessarily object to the killing of Han Solo. Hell, they were originally planning to do that all the way back in The Empire Strikes back. And the part where Han gets dipped into the Carbon Freezing device was emotional and meant something. This, this... This was fucking bullshit. As soon as Kylo Ren wandered out onto that catwalk above the bottomless abyss, I had a bad feeling about what was going to happen. And to have him die to the stupid "You're my son and I love you, nope, the Sun just got burned out and now I'm evil again and will stab you dad" bullshit is not the way fucking Han Solo deserves to die. Have him go down with his blaster blazing. Have one of his crazy mad dashes into the heart of danger finally come up short. Hell, have him do the old bit where he has to stay behind in order to buy enough time for Chewie and the new kids to escape. Have Han Solo's death mean something. But no, it didn't. Han Solo's death didn't mean shit. It didn't move the plot along. Hell, none of the main characters even really fucking cared. Yeah, Han Solo, a General in the Rebellion, hero of countless battles, the guy who had Luke Skywalker's Six when he blew up the Death Star just died. Oh, we'll make a sad face for a few seconds and... Cut to R2D2 waking up and everyone cheering off the Millennial Falcon as it takes off with the plucky girl. And yes I wrote Millennial on purpose, since it's only Millennials who have the attention span of a goldfish who think that this is the right choice and who'll lap it up. Han Solo is the most important character in the Star Wars franchise. The franchise would have been a bomb without Harrison Ford. His death is a hundred times more important than Obi Wan Kenobi's and Yoda's combined. And its basically treated as some footnote or some stage to pass in order to progress to the next level. Absolute bullshit. Ya i was really surprise they didnt kill off Luke instead, i thought the death scene/son connection would make alot more sense with luke (now he is father to a powerful Jedi, its like poetry) but i guess that would mean they would have to have Han Solo do the 5 seconds of stoic shit, and that wouldnt fly with the millennials who posted all those reaction to trailer videos of them having anal organisms when Harrison ford managed to wander on set And a i like Ford alot, and though i do think his death was poory thought out and felt rushed, if i had i my pick of which 2 of the orginal 3 i would want kept around for more than one movie, if nothing else but for a filmaking sense, Mark Hammil, and Mark Hamill Leia is just that, shes Leia, she was there to play a damensial in distress that looked damn fine in whatever weird outfits George slapped her in and the fact that she managed to have a human performance is a bonus (even in eipisode 6 when for 30 minutes the movie became about her on Endor for some reason). Now she's bloated and dosent have the fuckablity to cover up the fact that she's an old woman and can only act as such Harrison Ford is by far the coolest out of the original 3, but the guy is old. He almost had to die in the first movie because he would get a bad case of "kingdom of the crystal skull" syndrome and wander around the following 2 looking bewildered while everyone else focuses on, well, pretty much everyone else Imagine the nerd rage that occured when he was side-stepped in episode 6 (even though the movie really wasnt about him as much as it was about Luke and his actions on Endor were pretty badass on there own merit) and multiply it by 100, i dont think he deserved to die like that, but i understand why he had TO die. He would turn into Lenord Nemoy in the Star Trek reboots, he deserves better than that But the fact is that unless we have the new bad guy personally fillet someone important with his lightsaber, we wont hate him enough- which is what JJ must be thinking. And he's not totally in the wrong for thinking like that, right off the bat its a good way for the new guy to trump, or even surpass Vader in "audience hating his guts factor" Harrison die in some heroic last stand in some explosion or whatnot- what he deserves, but no one is going to be violently hating Ren as much as the filmmakers need them too. Hell the guy could mow down fucking legions of stromtroopers, but no matter what, it dosent feel right seing him impaled. Han solo wouldnt give the bastard the pleasure, but if he dies any other way, directly or indirectly, the new guy (in JJ abrams mind) will be compared as a lackluster autistic villan compared to vader Hammil on the other hand, has damn good range as an actor out of the three, and has not only bothered to fucking shower for the new movie, but has arguably went one of the best 180s actors are capable of (with the help of Hollywood trainers, dietitians, and assloads of cash, but hey, the other two didnt manage it either), and pretty much everything he has been in after star wars 6 has been a steady rise of quality, he's a good actor and he's goning to definitly get another 2 movies atleast out of whatever deal he made with Satan Donward 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter_Sobchak Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Does anyone know why some random Stormtrooper just happened to be equipped with a giant lightsaber proof baton when they attacked the cantina place? StrelaCarbon and LoooSeR 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter_Sobchak Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 I can't wait until the next movie when we get to see Rey get her hand cut off and Finn encased in carbonite! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priory_of_Sion Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Han's death was more to advance KR's character than anything else. I saw it coming, and that was the worse thing about it. General Hux, being a better Tarkin, is a nice villain to have without any force powers. I like his rivalry with KR. I expect him to have a bigger role in the next movies. Captain Phasma was disappointing, but I suspect that she was a victim of editing. I'd rather see her being a good villain than some tentacle monsters trying to eat Finn. Rey, despite being great at everything, is too likable to not route for. Finn seems a normal person. He's not that good at anything in particular and he just seems like he's along for the ride which is fine as most Star Wars characters are Jedis or badass smugglers, bounty hunters, pilots, etc. Poe is cool. BB-8 isn't as good as R2D2, but it's fine. Chewie is given more character which is great. I liked all the non-CGI aliens too. Maz and Snoke didn't just look off, but they were both fairly boring. Seemed like rehashed Yoda and the emperor. I want to hear more about Snoke as he could be very interesting as how he came into power after the fall of the empire is unexplained. Maz should be forgotten about as she's unconvincing and slightly annoying. Worse flop of the movie character wise. Stormtroopers can actually fight? Yes please. The movie was derivative of the OT, but I think it was a safe decision in order to be able to explore the SW Galaxy in more unique ways in the next movies. This was the 3rd best re-sequel-boot of the year, but Fury Road and Creed were pretty damn good and TFA isn't that far behind those films. Donward 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrelaCarbon Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 It wasn't as mind-blowingly awful as the prequels, but I was rather disappointed by the lack of originality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belesarius Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Anyone else notice the fancy Magpul and other various accessories on the Stirlings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belesarius Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Also, a quote from Eric Flint on TFA: "For Pete's sake, what is it about The Force that produces the most dysfunctional families the universe has ever seen?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Does anyone know why some random Stormtrooper just happened to be equipped with a giant lightsaber proof baton when they attacked the cantina place? I am going to error on the side of the fact that if the Empire wants to capture Luke Skywalker (or kill him) that they've realized that sending stormtroopers with blasters isn't going to cut it. Because for six movies, Jedis with swords have been mowing down dudes with blasters. So it must be a tactical move to equip some of the stormtroopers with a weapon that they can defend themselves with. Oh, and having a stormtrooper melee fight Finn makes for a cool action sequence for the filmmakers. Finally, I like how Finn was recognized twice by guys from the Empire and they flipped out calling him a traitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted December 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Ya i was really surprise they didnt kill off Luke instead, i thought the death scene/son connection would make alot more sense with luke (now he is father to a powerful Jedi, its like poetry) but i guess that would mean they would have to have Han Solo do the 5 seconds of stoic shit, and that wouldnt fly with the millennials who posted all those reaction to trailer videos of them having anal organisms when Harrison ford managed to wander on set And a i like Ford alot, and though i do think his death was poory thought out and felt rushed, if i had i my pick of which 2 of the orginal 3 i would want kept around for more than one movie, if nothing else but for a filmaking sense, Mark Hammil, and Mark Hamill Leia is just that, shes Leia, she was there to play a damensial in distress that looked damn fine in whatever weird outfits George slapped her in and the fact that she managed to have a human performance is a bonus (even in eipisode 6 when for 30 minutes the movie became about her on Endor for some reason). Now she's bloated and dosent have the fuckablity to cover up the fact that she's an old woman and can only act as such Harrison Ford is by far the coolest out of the original 3, but the guy is old. He almost had to die in the first movie because he would get a bad case of "kingdom of the crystal skull" syndrome and wander around the following 2 looking bewildered while everyone else focuses on, well, pretty much everyone else Imagine the nerd rage that occured when he was side-stepped in episode 6 (even though the movie really wasnt about him as much as it was about Luke and his actions on Endor were pretty badass on there own merit) and multiply it by 100, i dont think he deserved to die like that, but i understand why he had TO die. He would turn into Lenord Nemoy in the Star Trek reboots, he deserves better than that But the fact is that unless we have the new bad guy personally fillet someone important with his lightsaber, we wont hate him enough- which is what JJ must be thinking. And he's not totally in the wrong for thinking like that, right off the bat its a good way for the new guy to trump, or even surpass Vader in "audience hating his guts factor" Harrison die in some heroic last stand in some explosion or whatnot- what he deserves, but no one is going to be violently hating Ren as much as the filmmakers need them too. Hell the guy could mow down fucking legions of stromtroopers, but no matter what, it dosent feel right seing him impaled. Han solo wouldnt give the bastard the pleasure, but if he dies any other way, directly or indirectly, the new guy (in JJ abrams mind) will be compared as a lackluster autistic villan compared to vader Hammil on the other hand, has damn good range as an actor out of the three, and has not only bothered to fucking shower for the new movie, but has arguably went one of the best 180s actors are capable of (with the help of Hollywood trainers, dietitians, and assloads of cash, but hey, the other two didnt manage it either), and pretty much everything he has been in after star wars 6 has been a steady rise of quality, he's a good actor and he's goning to definitly get another 2 movies atleast out of whatever deal he made with Satan I can only imagine thst someone who thinks Leia's character exists only to be the damsel in distress that looks pretty didn't pay too much attention to the original trilogy. Carrie Fisher sounds like she's smoked a pack a day her entire life, though. It's jarring for the audience, I agree, but it actually fits perfectly with what we should expect from the Leia we saw in the OT. She's a type-A warleader addicted to stress and pressure, and she's probably a big reason the Resistance even exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tied Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 I can only imagine thst someone who thinks Leia's character exists only to be the damsel in distress that looks pretty didn't pay too much attention to the original trilogy. Carrie Fisher sounds like she's smoked a pack a day her entire life, though. It's jarring for the audience, I agree, but it actually fits perfectly with what we should expect from the Leia we saw in the OT. She's a type-A warleader addicted to stress and pressure, and she's probably a big reason the Resistance even exists. Im not saying she didnt have her moments, especially in the early parts of episode 6 and all of episode 5 But, its one of those cases where most of the credit goes to the writers and directors than Carrie herself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted December 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 Im not saying she didnt have her moments, especially in the early parts of episode 6 and all of episode 5 But, its one of those cases where most of the credit goes to the writers and directors than Carrie herself Um, except inasmuch as a character is a creation of the writers, I thoroughly disagree with you. I think Carrie Fisher did an excellent job making Leia into a character that substantially subverted the damsel in distress trope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belesarius Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 Ok, Bele's major bitching points: Lame assed super weapon. Just a random super death star bullshit thing. Kylo Ren comes across as a bit of a hesitant whiny bitch. The dude who trained him is obviously not on Palapatine's level. Would have liked to seen Leia wielding a lightsaber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted December 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 Kylo Ren comes across as a bit of a hesitant whiny bitch. See, I guess I'm weird, because I liked that. RobotMinisterofTrueKorea 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priory_of_Sion Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 Kylo Ren is already more interesting than Darth Vader was. I'll wait to see the next movies until I state that his character is better than Vader. Sturgeon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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