Pardus
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Posts posted by Pardus
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Are there detailed photos of the damaged one the Russians recently captured?
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On 5/26/2023 at 1:50 PM, SH_MM said:
The add-on armor is not homogenous steel.
No it's one of the "x"-tech NERA/NxRA external addon types. I don't know which letter they use today, you claim E, which might be right.
IIRC the combined thickness of the addon armour, i.e. a steel + mystery layer + steel sandwhich bolted together, is 65mm based on pictorial evidence, 45mm of that consisting of what is believed to be high hardness steel.
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On 4/2/2023 at 8:59 PM, AtomSez said:
Hi, i have a question regarding the 40mm upper glacis: it seem to me a vulnerable point, and in the A7 upgrade has been somewhat resolved. also the Strd 122 has a similar applique armour. How much this plate can protect against modern russian APFSDS? is the 7° slope effective enough?
The upper glacis is most likely a 45mm plate @ 82 deg, which is equivalent to ~350mm of RHA. An additional atleast 45mm of plating has then been added on top of that for the 2A7V bumping protection there up to above 700mm RHAe. That said this protection value is taken from a Swedish leak regarding Strv122 protection levels whilst using 90's D-tech external addon armour. It's rather likely that the 2A7V uses newer (E, F, G-Tech etc) external armour packages which provide even better protection.
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15 hours ago, TWMSR said:
Maybe it is range of stabilized elevation which might not be same as maximum or manual elevation range.
Perhaps, its a plausible explanation, although thats the first time I would have heard of that.
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On 2/22/2023 at 11:46 PM, Sheffield said:
@SH_MM Any idea why they stated gun depression and elevation is now -7.4 and + 17.4 as opposed to previous version's -9 and +20?
That does seem a bit strange. I know the 2A6 has a -9 and +20 elevation. Not sure if it has anything to do with increased recoil travel with the higher pressure L55A1 ? Although I would've thought that could be balanced out by modification to the hydraulic recoil dampers.
Quoted weight also appears strange at 61.5-64 tons, considering the 2A7V is 67.5 tons.
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Gonna be interesting to see configuration they're going to get, and the weight.
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I have a feeling the superior protection and firepower of the 2A7NO, not to mention far easier logistics considering all neighbours use of the Leo, is what was the decider. The rest is just drama as the chief of defence didnt want new tanks in the first place, but instead wanted attack helis.
Regarding the former, I guess with certain mods 64.5 tons is possible, if things such as the belly armour is removed. I have my doubts that lithium batteries with sufficient capacity would be lighter than the APU though.
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Regarding the Norwegian weight limit of 61.5 t, if that is upheld then the Leopard 2A7NO is going to lack some pretty substantial protection in places as compared to the 2A7DK which weighs in at 68+ t. Or was this Norwegian requirement amended?
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Some new information on strikeshield from a couple days ago:
https://www.edrmagazine.eu/iav-conference-rheinmetall-details-its-hybrid-armour-solution
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23 hours ago, Lord_James said:
Could always make a mini windshield wiper for the sensors, but that would probably be bulky/needlessly complex.Yeah, I think a small high pressure water (or some cleaning/solvent fluid) spray nozzle for each small camera would be simpler (ala those you see for headlights on modern cars), but Im not sure that would always work.
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According to Rheinmetall Strikeshield has the lowest detectable emissions of all APS out there atm.
The problem with optical sensors is dirt, which can quite quickly render such sensors useless.
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Update:
Seems like a joint deal between the US & Germany has been reached, where M1A2 Abrams & Leopard 2A5 AND 2A6 tanks are sent to Ukraine. What I've heard so far is that Germany is intending to send 25 Leopard 2A5's, whilst the number of 2A6's hasn't been mentioned. Not sure how many M1A2 Abrams will be sent either.
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Well it appears they've opened up to allow other countries of sending their Leopard 2s, so I think possibility 1 & 4 can be ruled out.
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On 1/17/2023 at 4:41 PM, Cheburashka said:
Supposedly a recently destroyed T-90M with Nakidka.
Video footage of this incident:
Looks like it brew up pretty much immediately upon being hit.
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So what do you guys think is the real reason Germany is hesitating to allow Leopard 2s in Ukraine?
1) Fear of the Russians acquiring German tech?
2) Fear of the Russians escalating things toward nuclear warfare?
3) Fear of outward image based on ghosts of the past "German tanks once again rolling across the eastern plains"?
4) Fear of lost future sales if pictures of destroyed Leopard 2s start emerging? Or wether it will perform well enough?
5) Backstage financial agreement with Russia (i.e. money talks)
6) Germany actually wanting the war to drag on, as it might benefit their weapons industry? (again money talks)
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10 hours ago, SH_MM said:
Not a single hardkill APS tested by the German Army for the Leopard 2A7A1 (IIRC they also tested ADS/StrikeShield and Iron Fist) met all requirements. Trophy however was combat proven and thus the lowest risk option.
Do you know what the specific requirements were? Also is Trophy capable of protecting against multiple simultaneous attacks like ADS ?
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Just now, Zach9889 said:
Simple answer is that Trophy meets requirements at the lowest cost.
Is it cheaper though? Or could it be a time delivery thing?
There is ofcourse always the possibility of strikeshield being chosen later as well.
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I think the Challenger 2 will probably do quite well in Ukraine, esp. if they reserve them for the most important tasks only. Because as you guys have rightly mentioned the real problem will be the maintenance of the tank. Which is the main reason the Leopard 2 is the optimal system for Ukraine.
That brings us to the reluctance of Germany to send its own Leopard 2s to Ukraine, which I can to some extent actually understand. But that they're not giving the green light for other countries to send theirs, that really boggles my mind.
That said if deliveries of Leopard 2's to Ukraine are green lit, then I hope Germany steps up and atleast makes sure they are supplied with the latest insensitive ammunition available, so that the hull rack doesn't constitute a 'cook off' risk if the armour is breached.
Question is wether enough of this new type ammunition is actually available?
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Not sure why Germany went with TROPHY for the Leopard, when Rheinmetalls Strikeshield APS seems so much sleeker.
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The Leopard 2 Thread
in Mechanized Warfare
Posted
Just finished watching this:
Interesting to note that the turret ring was moved back 20 cm facilitated by the swapping of the old MTU MB873 with the more compact MTU MB883 engine providing the same power output.
Quick and neat way of saving a lot of space and weight, whilst also achieving a more central turret position.
Will be interesting to see wether Rheinmetall will follow suit with their upgraded chassis for their KF51 project.