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Sturgeon's House

Gun Ready

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Posts posted by Gun Ready

  1. The Netherlands Army decided just these days to perform a CV9035NL upgrade including IRON FIST APS from Elbit and Rafael SPIKE-LR ATGM. The number of vehicles is much higher with 122 each, so it seem that this is a more mature decision instead of 17 Leopards!







  2. On 6/17/2020 at 11:17 PM, Laviduce said:

    Does anyone know when the "E-technology" armor packages were introduced to the Leopard 2 line ? I heard that that happened over 10 years ago.

    The development of the E -technology started 2002 as a private initiative of KMW to cover the expected threat of PG's fired from RPG-7. The design covered turret and chassis with add-on armour modules adapted to Leopard 2.

    This technology was proved by German Army and sold by KMW to the Canadian Army for their Leopard 2 A4M CAN. A few vehicles were sent in 2010 to Afghanistan and performed pretty well. This technology can also be attached to Leopard 2 A7V as the attachment points have been foreseen at this MBT.

  3. 17 hours ago, LoooSeR said:

      Hey guys, look, a photo of Armata in Syria was posted!


       Totally real!


    Do you think that this is reality or a fake in best photoshop quality? BTW pretty nice front girl! Can't believe she would have been in Syria more that she is posing in a Moscow film studio.5

  4. 13 minutes ago, Willy Brandt said:

    On the case who SH_MM is:
    I dont think a 70 year old german defence industry retiree would be in this forum.
    And if he was he would be posting in a german forum too.

    I think he is a student at a university for defence technology or works for one of the bigger companies but is pretty new.
    The young guy at bigger Company is pretty plausible because he keeps his online profile very low.

    I think this here is one of, if not the only forum he posts on after his sadly deserted blog.


    Maybe you are right but at some time he will betray himself... 

  5. You are right, the guys being engineers with Leopard 2 first development at DEG (Deutsche Entwicklungsgesellschaft) are too old to type in forums or are even dead. But some guys which worked with the development of the improved Leopard 2 A5 armour are old (more than 60) but still agile in some protection areas. ;)

  6. 2 hours ago, Pardus said:




    No, I've made it abundantly clear from the beginning that 45mm is more likely in my opinion. I never once claimed it to be fact, and neither did I simply scuff & brush away anything you said as ridiculous the way you have done it to me.



    On the contrary I have an argument, which is that based on the logic that if immunity to 20mm DM43 was demanded above 700mm height then 30mm of armour wouldn't be enough. That's the main argument from my side.


    If you have a report that says otherwise, heck even that side armour was decreased then I don't understand why you haven't posted it by now.



    "Just as you don't have a clue what you are talking about" - What a way to start a sentence, you for sure aren't emotionally invested in this conversation at all ^_^ 


    1) Never claimed that 12mm perforated steel + 30mm base armour is insufficient vs 14.5mm AP (a 12mm perforated steel rubber plate obviously doesn't provide as much protection as a monolithic steel plate though), what I've said is that there's a noticable portion of the Leopard 2's side hull which isn't covered by skirts and hence would likely be vulnerable to even 14.5mm AP if just 30mm thick.

    2) Immunity to 20mm APCR was what I remembered as the requirement, you claim it is at 100m above 700mm height (you "informed" me no less, fancy stuff, we'll get back to that), which I completely accepted, but it's a pointless detail to make as it doesn't impact the argument I was making: i.e. 30mm of armour ultra high hardness, high hardness or regular RHA isn't going to be sufficient to guarantee immunity against 20mm DM43 based on the flat penetration figures I've seen for this round. It might just cut it vs 14.5mm if its UHHS, not sure.

    3) I didn't "decide" that penetration performance of WW2 20mm APCR matters as reference, I mentioned it to illustrate that performance of modern 20mm APCR certainly wouldn't be worse than this.

    4) Slat armour is supposed to break up HEAT warheads, so yes ofcourse it should also work against some ATGMs, it depends entirely on warhead type and hit location. Against a top attack only ATGM system side mounted slat armour obviously doesn't really matter.



    Nope, once again never once said that. I said they were scrapped because failed to meet the requirements that the production version was built for.


    If the requirement for the 2K & 2AV was for immunity to 20mm DM43 along the entire crew compartment and they fulfilled this requirement, then find me the statement were that is made and we're good. I've read through my own copy of Krapke & Hilmes book and found nothing suggesting this.



    Incorrect, like I've said from the beginning I don't care what thickness the side hull is, and I do care about what is fact, but in case we don't know these facts (which is the case here) then I will concentrate  on what I think is most likely based on the limited information we have. And I can do that without calling anyone with a different opinion clueless or any other deragatory term in the process.


    You on the other hand seem to only care about having people acknowledge everything you say as fact, and if they don't you will let personal insults rain upon them until they submit to what you deem factual. Which brings me to the obvious question of why you act like this? From where does this sense of authority & entitlement on the subject originate? What's the ethos here? Are you a former KMW employee? Do you work with the Leopard 2 on a daily basis etc? If so then I can understand that you feel you can speak with atleast some elevated authority on the subject (it still doesn't excuse your deplorable habbit of speaking down to people however), but otherwise I don't see how you can expect others to simply abandon their own opinion.





    In my opinion @SH_MM was never a KMW employee because he is a Deisenroth and Rheinmetall fan and he believes that KMW has no protection development knowledge. For me he is an old fool telling old stories with little actual background. Guess he is a pensioned BWB or BMVg clerk, more than 70 years old and playing the "protection knowledge" supervisor for this community. Sorry for this rigorous statement!

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