Khand-e

1 hour ago, 2805662 said:

Thanks @Khand-e 

 

Lots of good information there. 

 

You mentioned cleaner-burning powder: I’m assuming it’s double based propellant?

 

Not having have much experience with lacquered steel cases (literally 25 rounds through a FAMAS), but the rapid build up of residue in the chamber surprised me. Is this an issue with 5.8x42mm?

 

How about tracers for machine gun use? For example, the US issues belts of 200 rounds (four rounds of M855 ball/one round M856 tracer/M27 link) for its SAW. Is there a Chinese equivalent?

 

Thanks. 

"You mentioned cleaner-burning powder: I’m assuming it’s double based propellant?"

They all are, the propellant used in DBP87 just happened to be exceptionally dirty which caused excessive cleaning required or fouling problems would appear quite fast so they came up with a new blend that performed the same but wasn't damn near black powder levels of filth. They didn't change the primer type from 87 to 95 per say, still a double slotted berdan primer, they just switched to a non corrosive blend once again for ease of cleaning issues. (Corrosive is still commonly seen in other calibers as the advantage of corrosive being able to last for decades in storage and still fire reliably was long preferred.)

"Not having have much experience with lacquered steel cases (literally 25 rounds through a FAMAS), but the rapid build up of residue in the chamber surprised me. Is this an issue with 5.8x42mm?"

There's different reasons the French and the Chinese use steel cases, the French used it in the FAMAS because the action on it will brutalize soft brass cases to the point it will eventually stop the gun from functioning outright, this causes a side effect where, since even softer steels are much harder and less malleable than brass, they don't conform to the chamber as tightly when fired so, as a result some residue will slip by, it wouldn't shock me if the same issues applied to Chinese steel cased ammo but I'm not sure how hard it is compared to French Steel intended for the FAMAS.

But, to answer a question you may have on the difference between why it's used, it's simply because steel is cheaper than brass by a significant margin, hell, the US Armed Forces have looked into steel casings several times for the same reason and I think still are but it's never gone anywhere, @Sturgeon knows more about the various US steel cased drives than I do. (note the DBP10 appears on the outside to be copper, but it's simply washed in copper to feed and extract easier and is still steel underneath, same concept behind why most high end defensive ammunition in the US is brass plated with Nickel.)

"How about tracers for machine gun use? For example, the US issues belts of 200 rounds (four rounds of M855 ball/one round M856 tracer/M27 link) for its SAW. Is there a Chinese equivalent?"

They use the same 4-1 ratio that the US Armed Forces do for tracers.

Tiamat was originally a Goddess and later a massive serpent that represented the chaos of all creation, but not really a "demon" per say.

7 hours ago, 2805662 said:

There doesn’t seem to be much out there on modern Chinese service ammunition...does it have a penetrator (ala SS109)? What’s its BC? Is there an AP variant?

 

Thanks

"does it have a penetrator (ala SS109)?" Yes, every single round since the original DBP87 with the exception of some concept match grade round named DBU141 has a hard cast lead over hardened tool steel core. It's shorter in the DBP87/95 but very long in the DVP88 and DBP10.

And the odd man out.

The middle one is actually DBP95, however the only actual differences between DBP87 and 95 are the the powder used (It's burns cleaner) and the primer. (from corrosive to non corrosive) so it's a very small change.

"What’s its BC?" for which rounds exactly? either way I'll have to give rough calculations on some unless another member already has them.

"Is there an AP variant?" yes, DVC12, 85gr projectile with a hollow tip and a 54gr Tungsten core with a small lead ball between the tip and the nose to act as a "cap" and keep it stable in flight, appears to use the same very thick, hard H90 alloy jacket as DBP10.

5 hours ago, Ramlaen said:

Brig. Gen. Chris Donahue doesn't really say much here about the NGSW, but he does say 6.8mm is the intended caliber unless industry offers something better.

 

 

"Something better."

So....anything?

3 hours ago, Scolopax said:

Remington filing for bankruptcy

This was announced a while ago actually.

Kind of sad, Remington used to actually have a pretty stellar reputation in the industry, then Freedom Group came along.

Keep in mind a lot of outdoor ranges or private places like farms will get bitchy if they see you using tracers due to the fire hazard risk. (yes, tracers do, infact, burn hot and long enough to ignite certain materials.)

I have on at least one occasion started a brush fire unwittingly firing off a mag of tracers during the winter, was a dumb thing to do that I didn't take into account.

This topic is a bit late.

https://www.amazon.com/How-Killed-Pluto-Why-Coming-ebook/dp/B003F3FJTG

29 minutes ago, Jagdika said:

For those guys on Reddit: Please, use your brains to think, use your logic to analyze!

That's impossible, you're literally asking Reddit users to use tools they straight up don't have.

Just don't worry about them, you actually have an audience here (and people who read here who will spread it) that actually have to ability to think.

43 minutes ago, EnsignExpendable said:

Back when I was posting on the WT forums I had a guy tell me that "not penetrated" actually meant "penetrated" in one of my Russian documents because his East German friend said so.

I remember that, Sun_Leader or something like that right?

Well being that both hardcore WT/WoT forum posters and pretty much all of Reddit in general (not just the WT section) have a pretty big reputation of being home to some of the biggest autistic basement dwelling horsefuckers on the English speaking web, I wouldn't worry to much about being attacked here by that demographic. Also thanks for more writings.

Funnily enough, it was never really Waffentrager that bothered me though, It was the fact he was too connected to Daigensui/Sumeragi that always raised questions though. (if you need to ask who that is, spare yourself the mental agony of finding out.)

36 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

Khrizantema

PICTURE WAS OF HACKED BY COUNTER PUTIN TROLL FORCE.

11 minutes ago, Akula_941 said:

 

10 YEARS

That's 70 years in DOG years.

6 hours ago, LoooSeR said:

Come to think of it, I was thinking about this.

Was the Sterling SMG family the last good indigenous UK gun design before their small arms design ability turned to India level or am I missing any?

@Sturgeon You have a good eye by the way, I went back today after reading up on them and it is infact a pre import model, apparently the guy who owned it sold it because he was near bankruptcy and unfortunately just had to sell a lot of shit according to the story.

Even before he told me it was rated at 90% condition, I would've easily believed him as I looked it over beforehand and It's in beautiful shape.

TLDR: I now have an RPK clone I guess, kind of wish it was an RPK-74M clone but hey, what can you do?

On 2/18/2018 at 2:11 PM, Ramlaen said:

You didn't think the desire for a X-Rod/TERM/MRM was gone did you?

 

You forgot the STAFF.

.....5th times a charm maybe possibly?

1 minute ago, Hisname said:

I promise that I will not share this photo with anyone.

But this  photo I saw in 2013 ......

Here is the link:  

http://tankarchives.blogspot.ru/2013/10/experimental-soviet-anti-tank-weapons.html

 

Oh, funnily enough that's EnsignExpendable's website, he's posting in here right now.

21 minutes ago, Khand-e said:

 

I have another photo of the Cartridge, but you have to promise not to share it since Akula had to pay the owner money for the rights to it and the rest of the documents it came in.

14 minutes ago, Hisname said:

I would like to see something that can not be found in Google))

PU-21 LMG ("Poplin" project) and AEK 906 9х18mm (AEK 906-01 9x19mm) very interesting, but long-known models of weapons.

The photos you submitted earlier (curved barrel  RPK and experimental underwater machine gun) are much more interesting.

The photos of PU-1, PU-2 provided by Belezarius, and a photo of the experimental cartridges for the anti-tank rifle PEC provided by Khand-e, also attracted my attention.

I have another photo of the Cartridge, but you have to promise not to share it since Akula had to pay the owner money for the rights to it and the rest of the documents it came in.

4 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

Armory USA was an importer, they were the first importers of Bulgarian AKs in the US IIRC. That M72 kind of looks like it was a pre import. Probably a great gun.

Asking price was $1,200, but the Gun Library clerk said he'd do $1,100.

Fuck, I should go back.

Saw this and legit wanted it, but I don't really know much about the reputation of the manufacturer or how well they do in the art of RPK-foo (But RPKs are fucking radical man.)

Armory USA, some company out of Houston.

24 minutes ago, Xlucine said:

At least it's not an STG-44

There's a difference?

24 minutes ago, Legiondude said:

Is this the proper thread to ask for opinions of Creedmoor vs Grendel?

the 6.5mm Creedmoor is a significantly more powerful cartridge but won't fit in an AR-15 length mag well, while the 6.5mm Grendel will. (this also applies to action lengths in bolt action rifles of course.)

The 6.5mm Creedmoor can also use longer, heavier bullets that perform better at longer ranges.

4 hours ago, Willy Brandt said:

Maybe but for most military applications you dont need subsonic ammo esp one that fits into existing magazines and guns, which end up blowing the gun up.
Suppressors are great for the military and so on but a bigger cartridge with less speed, more recoil, less penetration, less range, less mag capacity, more weight and which can easily chamber into existing system and blow them up makes me question why you would want something like that.
Maybe the SEALS will find them useful but still why do you want them? Just for clearing houses with with some poor fellas in it with no armor on? Blasting them with 2-3 5.56 rounds will do the job probably fine. But for this sole job getting a new gun in a new caliber? Colour me very sceptical.

 

The same with 6.5mm Creedmoor or whatever they want their new sniper rifles in
and that .338 Normie machine gun round.

Maybe you can try to convince me but 5.56, 7.62 and .338 Lapua/.300 Win Mag seem to do the job just fine.

Well, it's pretty much agreed here that .300 Blackout is universal garbage but, 6.5mm Creedmoor and 6mm Creedmoor do legitimately beat the shit out of 7.62x51mm in most applications.

SOCOM was looking to to sample 6.5mm CM and .260 rem to replace their 7.62x51mm chambered DMRs a bit ago but, haven't heard much about that lately so probably canned. =/

57 minutes ago, Hisname said:

Good day. Tell me please, the cartridges depicted in the last photo are experienced cartridges for an soviet anti-tank rifle PEC М1942 (20x150R)? Thank you.

Yes, they are various 20mm RES cartridges and sectioned bullets for them, however I'm not incredibly well versed in the prototype "super at rifles" that the USSR made, EnsignExpendable or Akula probably know a lot more than I do on the subject.

1 hour ago, EnsignExpendable said:

Ulanov posted a document regarding Soviet experimental 5.6 mm rounds in 1941. A prototype was tested, but it was deemed impossible to produce a gun with the required weight of 3.6 kg. 

Funny you mention it because these popped up on Akula's QQ group earlier today.

Also, just for the hell of it, this thing!.