barbaria Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 Quote Probably because as LoooSeR just said, these are export vehicles, and "all the bells and whistles" puts it out of the price range of any potential buyers, and anyone who can do it themselves almost certainly wouldn't need to export in the first place. China's primary buyers are located mostly, in order by region in, 1. Southeast and Central Asia 2. Africa 3. the Middle East 4. South America and 5. Far Eastern Europe. Do these sound like regions with countries loaded with cash for the most part to spend on the cutting edge assuming were not talking about the nations where the USA and Russia already has a firm foothold? maybe theres a reason for the past 4 years China has been the 3rd most successful arms exporter, they know how to play the game. I'm of the opinion that buying AFV's nowadays without thermals is ignorant and foolish. Thermals have proven their worth since 1991 and any army who considers buying these night-blind vehicles deserves a beating by a thermal imaging equipped opponent. Quote So a literal decade ago = recent? because that's when the ZBD04A actually entered service as the designation was initially confused by most sources as the ZBD08, even I initially wrote it as this years ago along with a few other mistakes I learned to fix in my writings because I was taught the hard way how to put effort into it, this is because Chinese designations are really complicated and change often due to the fact they're rarely correctly identified in the first place. (and even though it entered full production on 2008, it was approved in 2007) The non thermal IFV's in Chinese service outnumber the thermal equipped one. I haven't seen any upgrade program for the older IFV's to equip them with thermals. Not even the ZBD-04A predecessor, the ZBD-04. Quote Again with this mysterious ZTQ-5 vehicle, what is this exactly? I should have said the VT-5 light tank. There was a light tank program initiated by the Chinese army and there where two competitors. The one who won the competition is called the ZTQ-5 and the loser is now offered for export and is called the VT-5. They are both quite similar in capabilities. The IFV that NORINCO offers as the VN-12 is based on the chassis of the ZTQ-5 light tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 12 minutes ago, barbaria said: I'm of the opinion that buying AFV's nowadays without thermals is ignorant and foolish. Thermals have proven their worth since 1991 and any army who considers buying these night-blind vehicles deserves a beating by a thermal imaging equipped opponent. Ever heard of Ukraine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbaria Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 1 minute ago, LoooSeR said: Ever heard of Ukraine? Indeed, they upgrade T-series thoroughly but with one missing crucial component: thermal imagers. Expect for the Oplot-M which is fielded in very small numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, barbaria said: Indeed, they upgrade T-series thoroughly but with one missing crucial component: thermal imagers. Expect for the Oplot-M which is fielded in very small numbers. They don't upgrade army tanks with thermal imager. Oplot tanks are not used in combat. Only Ukrainian tanks that received thermal imagers were T-64s that were used in European tank competiotion. And UAF oponents use basically same shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted August 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 10 minutes ago, barbaria said: I'm of the opinion that buying AFV's nowadays without thermals is ignorant and foolish. Thermals have proven their worth since 1991 and any army who considers buying these night-blind vehicles deserves a beating by a thermal imaging equipped opponent. Cool, tell that to the nations who can't afford thermals on their vehicles, if they can, they can pay up, or they probably develop their own tech and vehicles already and don't need exports to begin with. Quote The non thermal IFV's in Chinese service outnumber the thermal equipped one. I haven't seen any upgrade program for the older IFV's to equip them with thermals. Not even the ZBD-04A predecessor, the ZBD-04. Care to source any of that? including that none are being upgraded? this will be good. Quote I should have said the VT-5 light tank. There was a light tank program initiated by the Chinese army and there where two competitors. The one who won the competition is called the ZTQ-5 and the loser is now offered for export and is called the VT-5. They are both quite similar in capabilities. The IFV that NORINCO offers as the VN-12 is based on the chassis of the ZTQ-5 light tank. the ZTQ-5 strikes again, what is this mystery vehicle?! And perhaps you shouldn't have said VT-5, because, aside from that fact that's also a wrong designation (big hint, the PLA and export vehicle designations never hyphenate a base name ever, It's VT5), there's also the fact that the designation "ZTQ-5" doesn't even exist hyphen or not and it's completely fictitious. Oh, you also missed the fact there were 4 competitors and not 3, and the new light MBT isn't based on any of them and still under testing and currently has no year number assigned to it's designation, and lastly that the VT5 wasn't a direct losing bid but design loosely based on a losing bid but intended for export all along after one wave of the competition. which reminds me, if it even was a service vehicle, why would it have the year designation "5"? aside from the fact it's very recent and not even finished, it would be either 05 or 15 if it was even type classified yet, let along during those years which it isn't. And lastly, the sources I'm asking (who are very credible) all claim that It's going to be a ZTZ designation for the new light and not a ZTQ, so...... TL:DR, you really have very poor understanding how PLA procurement or designations work at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barbaria Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 Quote Care to source any of that? including that none are being upgraded? this will be good. It's not like the Chinese are going to admit their IFV's are nightblind. And going from all the videos and pictures that are available to us, the only IFV equipped with thermals in Chinese service is the ZBD04A. If you count all the ZBD04, type 86A, type 86, ZBL09, Type 92, Type 92B, ZBD05 and ZLC2000 they surely must amount to more than the ZBD04A. Quote the ZTQ-5 strikes again, what is this mystery vehicle?! And perhaps you shouldn't have said VT-5, because, aside from that fact that's also a wrong designation (big hint, the PLA and export vehicle designations never hyphenate a base name ever, It's VT5), there's also the fact that the designation "ZTQ-5" doesn't even exist hyphen or not and it's completely fictitious. And lastly, the sources I'm asking (who are very credible) all claim that It's going to be a ZTZ designation for the new light and not a ZTQ, so...... TL:DR, you really have very poor understanding how PLA procurement or designations work at all. Thanks for clarifying that. Sometimes designations get thrown around the internet whitout sources backing them up. Chinese army designation are quite confusing and of course, tanks are being called ZTZ-xx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 Met749 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akula_941 Posted August 23, 2017 Report Share Posted August 23, 2017 On 2017/8/18 at 11:09 PM, barbaria said: It's not like the Chinese are going to admit their IFV's are nightblind. And going from all the videos and pictures that are available to us, the only IFV equipped with thermals in Chinese service is the ZBD04A. If you count all the ZBD04, type 86A, type 86, ZBL09, Type 92, Type 92B, ZBD05 and ZLC2000 they surely must amount to more than the ZBD04A. Thanks for clarifying that. Sometimes designations get thrown around the internet whitout sources backing them up. Chinese army designation are quite confusing and of course, tanks are being called ZTZ-xx. since when that no thermal imaging equipment = nightblind? how funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akula_941 Posted August 23, 2017 Report Share Posted August 23, 2017 On 2017/8/18 at 11:09 PM, barbaria said: It's not like the Chinese are going to admit their IFV's are nightblind. And going from all the videos and pictures that are available to us, the only IFV equipped with thermals in Chinese service is the ZBD04A. If you count all the ZBD04, type 86A, type 86, ZBL09, Type 92, Type 92B, ZBD05 and ZLC2000 they surely must amount to more than the ZBD04A. Thanks for clarifying that. Sometimes designations get thrown around the internet whitout sources backing them up. Chinese army designation are quite confusing and of course, tanks are being called ZTZ-xx. also there is no ZBL09, pleae correct it as ZBL08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMartin Posted August 26, 2017 Report Share Posted August 26, 2017 HJ-10 missile vs Type 59/69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyklon Posted August 28, 2017 Report Share Posted August 28, 2017 ZBD 05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyklon Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 ZBD-05 amphibious IFV heard that there is a water in the mountains, discovers that it is all frozen. Scolopax 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyklon Posted September 20, 2017 Report Share Posted September 20, 2017 LoooSeR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 Quote A Venezuelan BTR-80 alongside a PLA ZBL-08 APC Bronezhilet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 Zyklon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyklon Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 LoooSeR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 Belarus testing Chinese CS/VN3 armored cars, will probably get some for free. Vehicles received name "Drakon" (Dragon) in Belarus. That_Baka 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguetechie Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 I personally find the Chinese efforts in the last 5-10 years especially extremely impressive... 1. They build enough of shit to not only be militarily useful but also economically viable! 2. Every new development is better than the one before. 3. In technological areas where equipping a sufficiently large number of vehicles with a given capability would be prohibitively expensive they do without and use the saved $ to build whole industries from scratch, fund espionage to further offset costs in these technologies, and in general are positioning themselves for where many of these technologies are going to be when someone cracks making them cheap and in bulk! (ir imagers and I2 gear for example) Like it or not they're playing extremely smart. Ramlaen and That_Baka 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 Between the lack of information, nationalism, stereotypes, and frankly inane bullshit (Chinese quantum radar sees you fapping!) it is very difficult to discuss Chinese military equipment on the english speaking parts of the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted October 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 17 hours ago, Ramlaen said: Between the lack of information, nationalism, stereotypes, and frankly inane bullshit (Chinese quantum radar sees you fapping!) it is very difficult to discuss Chinese military equipment on the english speaking parts of the internet. Which is why most of the talking I do regarding the PLA is done on the Chinese speaking parts of the internet very few dare to venture into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 11 minutes ago, Khand-e said: Which is why most of the talking I do regarding the PLA is done on the Chinese speaking parts of the internet very few dare to venture into. The bits you bring back with you are appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguetechie Posted October 28, 2017 Report Share Posted October 28, 2017 Indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpeg.500ead743c175df1c0a99372a32d0fef.jpeg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.