Toxn Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 Rooivalk! Aren't there only like 12 of those? Pretty much. I mentioned this earlier, but word on the street is that Denel is scrambling to start the line back up again - having got the first ever foreign order. So there might be a few more on the way at some point in the near future. Edit: SeffEffrika.jpg Also, analysis: http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/what-went-wrong-with-the-rooivalk-2007-06-08-1 And the good news: http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/new-generation-denel-rooivalk-attack-helicopter-under-consideration-2015-07-23 http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=42356:feature-denel-pushing-rooivalk-mk-2-export-orders&catid=124:military-helicopters http://www.bdlive.co.za/opinion/2016/01/21/developing-the-rooivalk-mk2-would-tick-many-vital-boxes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted April 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 "It's one of the two best attack helicopters in the world." *fuckinglolgigglesnort* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collimatrix Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 Does anyone even know what makes for a good attack helicopter? I don't think there have been any conflicts where the things have been used as intended; as tank-busters. Ethiopian-Eritrean war maybe. I know there was some use in GW1 knocking out radar stations, but I don't recall them busting up vehicles much. Also, GW1 is of limited instructive value since the enemy didn't really fight back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 "It's one of the two best attack helicopters in the world." *fuckinglolgigglesnort* Eh, as Coli points out its all subjective anyway. What do you think the requirements are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 Does anyone even know what makes for a good attack helicopter? I don't think there have been any conflicts where the things have been used as intended; as tank-busters. Ethiopian-Eritrean war maybe. I know there was some use in GW1 knocking out radar stations, but I don't recall them busting up vehicles much. Also, GW1 is of limited instructive value since the enemy didn't really fight back. Only NATO ever really intended them to be specialist tank-busters though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashbotUS Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 We did shoot up our own APCs on occasion. Of the 270+ deployed, I think the AH64 is credited with ~2 enemy vehicle kills per helicopter in GW1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted April 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 Eh, as Coli points out its all subjective anyway. What do you think the requirements are? How about something that can carry Hellfires or Vikhirs, for a start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 How about something that can carry Hellfires or Vikhirs, for a start? Mokopa not good enough for you, eh? But seriously, what is your working definition of an attack helicopter? Mine is something along the lines of 'rotary which close air support' - which implies that the aircraft must be rugged, easy to forward-base, with good endurance, decent optics/communication and the ability to dish out/take punishment to and from a wide variety of things. By this metric the Rooivalk is fine, and the Tiger is shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashbotUS Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 Hell, the OH-58D could provide close air and anti-armor support, had seriously good optics and communications, and could operate from a postage stamp in the woods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 Hell, the OH-58D could provide close air and anti-armor support, had seriously good optics and communications, and could operate from a postage stamp in the woods. The SANDF made pretty good use of Alouette IIIs with 20mm guns as gunships. One of the old salts I used to work with swore that a few even managed to kill a Hind in Angola by baiting the area with a burning oil drum and then jumping the Hind as it came in to investigate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 The SANDF made pretty good use of Alouette IIIs with 20mm guns as gunships. One of the old salts I used to work with swore that a few even managed to kill a Hind in Angola by baiting the area with a burning oil drum and then jumping the Hind as it came in to investigate. Alouette IIIs, the Olifant menace of the skies in South Effrica. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashbotUS Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 I saw pilots squeeze those little Kiowas into places that would amaze me every time they landed. I was on an OP once that had barely enough room for my humvee and a camo net. Pilot managed to set the thing down in between my truck and a grove a pine trees that seem to only a few inches of clearance for the rotors. The data set for that little helicopter was pretty impressive for its time. Crew 2 pilots Height 12 feet 10.6 inches Length 41 feet 2.4 inches Rotor diameter 35 feet Maximum gross weight 4,500 pounds (unarmed); 5,500 pounds (armed) Maximum airspeed 125 KIAS Cruise airspeed 80 KIAS Endurance 2 hours Cargo hook capacity 2,000 pounds Litter capacity 4 (externally) Troop-carrying capacity 6 (externally). Avionics Data transfer system ground station, data transfer module, data transfer receptacle in the aircraft. Video tape recorder records up to 2 hours of copilot's MFD. ANVIS display symbology system provides basic flight information. Mast-mounted sight Thermal imaging sensor. Television sensor. Laser range finder/designator. Optical boresight system. Weapons .50-caliber heavy machine gun. 70-millimeter folding fin aerial rocket. Air-to-air Stinger missile. Hellfire modular missile system. Communication equipment Two VHF-FM AN/ARC-186 or AN/ARC-201 SINCGARS. One UHF AN/ARC-164 Have Quick. One VHF-AM AN/ARC-186. Two TSEC/KY-58. HF capable (radio not installed). TSEC/KY-75 (device not installed). Retransmission capabilities. FM homing (AN/ARC-186 only). Airborne target handover system (digital communications). Navigation equipment Attitude and heading reference system (Litton LR-80 Inertial). AN/ASN-137 doppler. AN/ASN-43 directional gyro. Aircraft survivability equipment AN/APX-100 IFF. AN/ALQ-144 IR jammer. AN/APR-39A radar warning receiver. AN/APR-44(V)3 radar warning receiver. AN/AVR-2 laser detecting set. Donward 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 Alouette IIIs, the Olifant menace of the skies in South Effrica. The really insane part, according to this guy, was when a second Hind showed up a while later to see why there were now two smoke plumes rather than one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 <p> I saw pilots squeeze those little Kiowas into places that would amaze me every time they landed. I was on an OP once that had barely enough room for my humvee and a camo net. Pilot managed to set the thing down in between my truck and a grove a pine trees that seem to only a few inches of clearance for the rotors. The data set for that little helicopter was pretty impressive for its time. Crew 2 pilots Height 12 feet 10.6 inches Length 41 feet 2.4 inches Rotor diameter 35 feet Maximum gross weight 4,500 pounds (unarmed); 5,500 pounds (armed) Maximum airspeed 125 KIAS Cruise airspeed 80 KIAS Endurance 2 hours Cargo hook capacity 2,000 pounds Litter capacity 4 (externally) Troop-carrying capacity 6 (externally). Avionics Data transfer system ground station, data transfer module, data transfer receptacle in the aircraft. Video tape recorder records up to 2 hours of copilot's MFD. ANVIS display symbology system provides basic flight information. Mast-mounted sight Thermal imaging sensor. Television sensor. Laser range finder/designator. Optical boresight system. Weapons .50-caliber heavy machine gun. 70-millimeter folding fin aerial rocket. Air-to-air Stinger missile. Hellfire modular missile system. Communication equipment Two VHF-FM AN/ARC-186 or AN/ARC-201 SINCGARS. One UHF AN/ARC-164 Have Quick. One VHF-AM AN/ARC-186. Two TSEC/KY-58. HF capable (radio not installed). TSEC/KY-75 (device not installed). Retransmission capabilities. FM homing (AN/ARC-186 only). Airborne target handover system (digital communications). Navigation equipment Attitude and heading reference system (Litton LR-80 Inertial). AN/ASN-137 doppler. AN/ASN-43 directional gyro. Aircraft survivability equipment AN/APX-100 IFF. AN/ALQ-144 IR jammer. AN/APR-39A radar warning receiver. AN/APR-44(V)3 radar warning receiver. AN/AVR-2 laser detecting set. Above all things, a helicopter should be there. Having something, anything with a gun and radio on board overhead is a huge deal. That said, my feeling is that a true attack helo needs to be able to survive some fire as well as laying it down. By that metric the scouts (amazing though they are) are not quite there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 More Alouette goodness: I've seen the one they used to test the 20mm mount for the Rooivalk. I'll get a picture once I'm back at my computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 I sort of like to put attack helos in 3 general categories (I could do more, but fuck that shit, too many), which are either. Light, small recon helos more for scouting and light fire support then anything (WZ-11, WZ-19, AH-6M Little Bird, Gazelle) Actual dedicated gunships (AH-64E Apache, Mi-28 Havoc, WZ-10, Ka-50/52, AH-1Z Viper, SOUTH EFFRICAN ROOIVALK) and Durable transports, purpose built or not that also fill a fire support/attack role. (Mi-24 Hind, various MH-60 variants, more Huey/Venom attack variants then god himself could count, ) I'm sure someone could do a better one, but yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 Here she is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_XH-1_Alpha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priory_of_Sion Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashbotUS Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 I wonder why they placed the pod under the chin of the helicopter as opposed to the mast mounted type on the OH-58D. They could mask that helicopter pretty well and only expose that ball above the treeline. It was incredibly hard to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted April 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 Mokopa not good enough for you, eh? But seriously, what is your working definition of an attack helicopter? Mine is something along the lines of 'rotary which close air support' - which implies that the aircraft must be rugged, easy to forward-base, with good endurance, decent optics/communication and the ability to dish out/take punishment to and from a wide variety of things. By this metric the Rooivalk is fine, and the Tiger is shit. I am under the impression that the Rooi cannot actually launch the Mokopa (yet). Is that false? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted April 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 Oh no, I am totes wrong about that. Huh. Well, there you go, that's the primary reason I snorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 I am under the impression that the Rooi cannot actually launch the Mokopa (yet). Is that false? It can, just waiting on certification (cue joke about africa time). Sturgeon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 It can, just waiting on certification (cue joke about africa time). Why not just use South Effricas massive stockpiles of Hellfire IIs and HJ-10s for the Rooivalk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted April 20, 2016 Report Share Posted April 20, 2016 Why not just use South Effricas massive stockpiles of Hellfire IIs and HJ-10s for the Rooivalk? We used them up a few years ago in operation Olifant Cull. This was followed by operation Wound Lick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashbotUS Posted April 22, 2016 Report Share Posted April 22, 2016 Donward 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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