Jump to content
Sturgeon's House

General artillery, SPGs, MLRS and long range ATGMs thread.

Recommended Posts

   Much better pics of North Korean SPG.


   Laser warning receivers, smoke grenades, possibly a radar over gun barrel (like on PLZ-05 SPG), double AGS on top. On the left i guess we can see long vertical slit for direct optical sight, while on the right a camera is mounted on turret roof edge. Cannon's recoil system is mounted assymetrically, 3 cylinders are visible near gun mantlet. Chassis is reversed tank chassis with engine deck in the front. Circle thingy in the middle of LFP is cooling fan access hatch. Grills are sort-of visible on UFP, indicating air intakes.



   From the side we have better view on engine compartment layout, and it is very similar to classic Soviet tanks arrangement, with small changes to air exhaust location. Engine exhaust is located over 1st roller, while air exhaust is placed over drive sprockets and to the side, instead of usual Soviet location on top of engine deck. Air intake is located on upper part of engine deck, behind gun stop, but before a "step" of crewed section of the hull.


   Overall not that much was done with chassis of a tank to make chassis for this SPG, at least when it comes to engine compartment. Air exhaust was moved to the sides probably to move hot air flow from area just above engine compartment roof to somewhere where they will be away from sight LOS/Gun/etc.


   Main combat systems are located in turret and crewed part of the hull, but nothing is known about those.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 1.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Object 326 SPG (Unofficial name - "Shayba"), was an initiative development by DB. 46 rounds, "double stack" in circular autoloader, crew in hull compartment outside of "turret". The gun, ammunition ra

2S18 Pat-S, an experimental precursor to the 2S31.  Armament was a SA61 152mm howitzer.    

Some information about Bereg ("Coast") coastal defense system.    System consist of 3 vehicle types - SPGs, command post vehicle and "Combat duty support vehicle". On a photo above SPG is on

9 hours ago, Beer said:


The driver must feel really happy to have both exhaust tubes on his side. Just saying. 


   Air exhaust is located on both sides, but engine exhaust is indeed located on the same side of the hull as driver's position. They should have tried to put that on other side for better comfort of driver when hatch is open.


   Also, some changes are visible between 2018 vehicles and 2020. MANPADS are gone, some sort of sight was mounted on roof edge on the right of the gun and possibly a radar mounted on new vehicle above cannon.



Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/25/2020 at 8:29 AM, LoooSeR said:

Vistl UGV (Belarus) armed with S-5 57 mm unguided rockets



Wasn't something similar attempted in Afghanistan, with rocket pods jury rigged onto BTRs?


IIRC, without the benefits of added velocity and higher AoA imparted from a helicopter, the accuracy was deemed insufficient.

Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, ADC411 said:


Wasn't something similar attempted in Afghanistan, with rocket pods jury rigged onto BTRs?


IIRC, without the benefits of added velocity and higher AoA imparted from a helicopter, the accuracy was deemed insufficient.

   Yes, S-5 and S-8 AFAIK needs to be launched from moving platform to stabilise properly. Don't know results of those test fires. If they use them to dire at targets in direct LOS at short-ish ranges, it could be not terrible.

Link to post
Share on other sites

For me the issue is for what it shall be used? The rockets have rather short range even when fired from an aircraft and the accuracy is greatly reduced already by firing them from helicopters instead of fixed-winged aircraft (at least I remember seeing a table showing that) and they are designed to be a direct fire weapon, not an artillery rocket. Direct-fire weapons generally need to have certain precision or they need to be at least fired from above so they don't become just a waste of ordonance hiting the ground and the sky instead of the target. 


So what can you do with an UGV armed with them? To fire a volley on a nearby apartment block? Isn't that too little? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Beer said:

For me the issue is for what it shall be used? The rockets have rather short range even when fired from an aircraft and the accuracy is greatly reduced already by firing them from helicopters instead of fixed-winged aircraft (at least I remember seeing a table showing that) and they are designed to be a direct fire weapon, not an artillery rocket. Direct-fire weapons generally need to have certain precision or they need to be at least fired from above so they don't become just a waste of ordonance hiting the ground and the sky instead of the target. 


So what can you do with an UGV armed with them? To fire a volley on a nearby apartment block? Isn't that too little? 

   Man, live Belarus alone, they have UGV that does many booms, looks good on video!

Link to post
Share on other sites

      HJ-10 ATGM on DongFeng armored car chassis



   The first photos of vehicles from the battery of the Chinese self-propelled ATGM HJ-10 on the chassis of the third generation Dongfeng Warrior armored vehicle. The first photo shows the vehicle of the battery commander of the HJ-10 self-propelled ATGM system, the second photo shows the HJ-10 self-propelled ATGM system itself, the third one shows the transport-loading vehicle, and the fourth one shows the ammunition delivery vehicle.










Link to post
Share on other sites

   EFOGM/FOG-M, American Spike-NLOS from 1990s and early 2000s. Man in the loop, IR/TV, 15 km max range, cruise speed about 100 m/s and altitude ~300 meters. Fiberoptic datalink, each missile weight was about 45 kg. Was supposed to be launched from 4x4 with 8 missile per vehicle.



Link to post
Share on other sites


   Looks like our military don't want Hermes in current form, but they want system with higher speed, named Klevok-2D, fitted with ramjet engine. Not sure where VTRK fits, as it was supposed to be weapon of the same-ish class.


   System description:


Iskander Jr.: the military will receive hypersonic mini-missiles


   The country has begun the creation of the latest hypersonic light-class missile, sources in the military-industrial complex told Izvestia. The development, according to them, is being carried out as part of the implementation of the concept of high-precision tactical missile systems. The novelty is capable of hitting targets at a range of hundreds of kilometers - to cover this distance, it will take a few seconds. Experts claim that now Russian troops will radically increase their firepower.


Compact hypersonic

   The development of new missiles has begun on the basis of technical solutions for the Hermes missile complex project, Izvestia sources in the defense industry said. The principal difference between the weapons, which received the working designation "Klevok-D2", will be the use of a new ramjet engine. It will accelerate the missile to hypersonic speed, which will dramatically increase its range and make it invulnerable to modern air defense systems.

   Earlier, Izvestia reported that the military department approved the concept of introducing high-precision tactical missile systems into ground brigades and divisions. Compact launchers can be mounted on Typhoon and Tiger armored vehicles. Targets for them will be detected by drones and soldiers with KRUS "Strelets" kits. The new weapons will take an intermediate place between artillery and heavy operational-tactical Iskander-M missile systems. According to the terms of reference for the development of the components of the complex, the new ammunition can be used from a variety of platforms, both ground and air. The launch weight in the transport and launch container will not exceed 150 kilograms. The caliber of 207 mm taken from "Hermes" will not change either. A warhead weighing 57 kg should be enough to destroy both armored vehicles and light shelters or individual buildings. According to sources, the rocket will be equipped with wings that unfold after launch. After taking off with the help of a detachable launch stage and giving the initial acceleration, the flight will continue on the cruise ramjet engine. On it, it will accelerate to several thousand kilometers per hour in 40 seconds. The terms of reference indicated that it should be optimized for movement at a level of up to five speeds of sound, which is the official boundary for the beginning of hypersound.


   Development under the designation "Klevok" has been known since the 90s of the last century. The sample created within their framework is now known as "Hermes". The novelty will use part of his developments, but in the version with a ramjet rocket engine "Klevok-D2" will fly much further and faster.


   Viktor Murakhovkiy commentary about system, tactical purpose:


   "- Previously, the combined arms divisions included Tochka missile systems, which are outdated and have been removed from service. And the divisions received nothing in return,” military expert Viktor Murakhovsky told Izvestia.

   “As a result, they had no long-range firepower left. At the same time, the area of responsibility of motorized rifle and tank brigades and divisions has expanded, and the scope of operations that they must carry out in accordance with new combat documents has increased. And from the means of fire, these formations have only barreled artillery and multiple launch rocket systems. Their range does not allow them to operate over the entire depth of the division's zone of responsibility. As a result, the commander is forced to ask the senior commander for resources. This is an abnormal situation. The commander must have at hand his own firepower capable of solving reconnaissance and strike missions.

   It is possible to direct new long-range missile systems in a variety of ways: from drones, using radar reconnaissance or information from military intelligence units, the expert added.



Link to post
Share on other sites

   PLA AH4 towed 155 mm caliber cannon. If i see it right this artillery piece have MV measuring radar on top of recoil mechanism above gun barrel. It also have computer screen on the left for gunner, so i suspect there is some sort of build-in FCS used on this thing.













Link to post
Share on other sites

   Few more pics of North Korean super-big MRLS (possibly ~600mm caliber) during recent night parade. Note 2 wheeled versions with 2nd one having 5 missiles vs 4 on 1st versionm while both are 4 axle truck-based launchers. Tracked have highest number of carried missiles, 6 per vehicle. And photos of other operation-level systems. Tracked chassis for MRLS and tactical missile system look same-ish, but looking closer shows that they have different chassis. Not sure why Norks made 2 trucks with same number of wheels for same system.














Link to post
Share on other sites


   Some interesting info on North Korean MRLS and SRBM for ME countries.



   While it may be long forgotten now, there was a time when North Korean armament was quite advanced compared to what was available on the open market (insofar as that was ever a thing), and their near monopoly on ballistic missile exports to non-(Western- or Soviet-)aligned gave them a significant revenue boost. 


   Take the case of the United Arab Emirates. Like surprisingly many countries across the globe, it was at one point quite eager to invest in the latest technology on offer by the DPRK, yet it has carefully avoided making this fact known to observers since.




North Korean 240mm MRLS firing during a UAE armed forces exercise




A Hwasong-5 based on a MAN KAT-1 TEL, as seen in a North Korean arms brochure showcased in The Mole: Infiltrating North Korea.




The "M-1989" Koksan as displayed at the IDEX 2005 in the UAE.


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Similar Content

    • By Beer
      I haven't found an appropriate thread where to put some interesting rare stuff related to WW2 development, be it industrial one or makeshift field modifications. 
      Let's start with two things. The first one is a relatively recently found rarity from Swedish archives - a drawing of ČKD/BMM V8H-Sv tank. The drawing and a letter was found by WoT enthusiasts in Swedish archives in 2014 (the original announcement and the drawing source is here). The drawing is from a message dated 8th September 1941. One of the reasons why this drawing was not known before may be that the Czech archives were partially destroyed by floods in 2002. Anyway it is an export modification of the V-8-H tank accepted into Czechoslovak service as ST vz.39 but never produced due to the cancelation of all orders after Münich 1938 (for the same reason negotiations about licence production in Britain failed). Also later attempt to sell the tank to Romania failed due to BMM being fully busy with Wehrmacht priority orders. The negotiations with Sweden about licence production of V8H-Sv lasted till 1942, at least in May 1942 Swedish commission was present in Prague for negotiations. The tank differed compared to the base ST vz.39 in thicker armor with different front hull shape (armor 60 mm @ 30° on the hull front and also 60 mm on the turret; all sides were 40 mm thick). The tank was heavier (20 tons) and had the LT vz.38 style suspension with probably even larger wheels. The engine was still the same Praga NR V8 (240-250 Hp per source). The armament was unchanged with 47 mm Škoda A11 gun and two vz.37 HMG. The commander's cupola was of the simple small rotating type similar to those used on AH-IV-Sv tankettes. It is known that the Swedes officially asked to arm the tank with 75 mm gun, replace the engine with Volvo V12 and adding third HMG to the back of the turret. In the end the Swedes decided to prefer their own Strv/m42. 

      Source of the drawing
      The second is makeshift field modification found on Balkans. It appears Ustasha forces (and possibly some SS anti-partizan units) used several Italian M15/42 medium tanks with turrets from Pz.38(t). There are several photos of such hybrids but little more is known. On one photo it is possible to see Ustasha registration number U.O. 139.

      Few more photos of such hybrid.
      It appears that the source of all those photos to be found on the internet is this book, Armoured units of the Axis forces in southeastern Europe in WW2 by Dinko Predoevic. 
    • By LoooSeR
      Hello, my friends and Kharkovites, take a sit and be ready for your brains to start to work - we are going to tell you a terrible secret of how to tell apart Soviet tanks that actually works like GLORIOUS T-80 and The Mighty T-72 from Kharkovites attempt to make a tank - the T-64. Many of capitalists Westerners have hard time understanding what tank is in front of them, even when they know smart words like "Kontakt-5" ERA. Ignoramus westerners!
         Because you are all were raised in several hundreds years old capitalism system all of you are blind consumer dummies, that need big noisy labels and shiny colorful things to be attached to product X to be sold to your ignorant heads and wallets, thats why we will need to start with basics. BASICS, DA? First - how to identify to which tank "family" particular MBT belongs to - to T-64 tree, or T-72 line, or Superior T-80 development project, vehicles that don't have big APPLE logo on them for you to understand what is in front of you. And how you can do it in your home without access to your local commie tank nerd? 
         Easy! Use this Putin approved guide "How to tell appart different families of Soviet and Russian tanks from each other using simple and easy to spot external features in 4 steps: a guide for ignorant western journalists and chairborn generals to not suck in their in-depth discussions on the Internet".
      Chapter 1: Where to look, what to see.
      T-64 - The Ugly Kharkovite tank that doesn't work 
         We will begin with T-64, a Kharkovite attempt to make a tank, which was so successful that Ural started to work on their replacement for T-64 known as T-72. Forget about different models of T-64, let's see what is similar between all of them.

      T-72 - the Mighty weapon of Workers and Peasants to smash westerners
         Unlike tank look-alike, made by Kharkovites mad mans, T-72 is true combat tank to fight with forces of evil like radical moderate barbarians and westerners. Thats why we need to learn how identify it from T-64 and you should remember it's frightening lines!

      The GLORIOUS T-80 - a Weapon to Destroy and Conquer bourgeois countries and shatter westerners army
         And now we are looking at the Pride of Party and Soviet army, a true tank to spearhead attacks on decadent westerners, a tank that will destroy countries by sucking their military budgets and dispersing their armies in vortex of air, left from high-speed charge by the GLORIOUS T-80!

      The T-80 shooting down jets by hitting them behind the horizont 
    • By LoooSeR
      T-14 ARMATA 
              This thread is about glorious russian MBT T-14, known as "Armada", "T-95", "black eagle", "T-99" and other stupid Western names given to Object 148 (T-14 in some recent documents). Here is number of images connected to that vehicle.

      Official model of unknown "artillery vehicle". Yeah, Putin, we know that this is T-14. Note Gatling gun on turret right side.
      Artist impression of T-14 based on known model, by Fyodor Podporin. 

      T-14 will use Relikt ERA, which is considerable improvement over Kontakt-5 in resisting to tandem HEAT warheads and EFPs.

      Side skirts would be thicker on a real vehicle, i think. Relikt have AFAIK bigger size than Kontakt-5 ERA build-in blocks.

      Whole album with renders: 
      Video of same render from same artist:

            People expect that tank would have turret weapon system like what you see on the BMP-3 "Bakhcha-U" turret - a lot of weapons in one turret for one gunner to work with. T-14 is rumored to be equipped with 30 (or even 57) mm autocannon, 4-6 barrel gatling type MG/HMG, new 125 (2A82) or even 152 mm (2A83) smoothbore cannons. Turret is unmanned, crew of 3 would be located in frontal part of hull, behind very serious frontal armor inside of compartment, well protected from all directions. Cannon would be loaded by new autoloading device. I hope that Burevestnik is working on them, those guys managed to make 100 mm Naval gun with RoF of 300 shots per minute.
            I really like how turret looks, but i don't understand why there is such a big turret "busket" for unmanned turret with all ammo placed inside of hull in special armored housing. Also, i don't see gunner sight and proposed FSC radar on 3D model (i assume that panoramic sight is for commander). Laser sensors on 3D model are from T-90A variant of "Shtora".
            Some officials mentioned works on new active protection system, that consist of powerfull radar station, that can work on "long ranges" and engage incoming projectiles (missiles) with that gatling MG. Will this system survive development stage and be presented on serial tanks is unknown. Although turret for T-15 Armata-based IFV already was shown with new APS "Afganit".
            If you pay attention you may see that artist used T-80 rollers for Armata chassis, and this is not a mistake - according to some sources Armata heavy chassis will use T-80 or T-80-like rollers to save weight. And looking at rear part of that tank you may notice a engine deck from gas-turbine equipped version of the T-80, which can be mistake becuase MoD want Armata with new ~1500 HP diesel engine. 
    • By CrashbotUS
      I'm doing some research on cold war era Soviet artillery doctrine and was wondering if anyone had any actual Soviet resources. No need for translations, I can read Russian. 
      Right now I have the FM 100-2.1 The Soviet Army:Operations and Tactics from my Army days and some NATO books that really only talk about what we knew from "observational reports". 
      I also have some Soviet artillery survivabilty manuals and Soviet artillery order of battle data but I'm have some trouble with actual artillery unit manuals and the like. 
      Anyone have a good source? 

  • Create New...