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General artillery, SPGs, MLRS and long range ATGMs thread.


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   Much better pics of North Korean SPG.

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   Laser warning receivers, smoke grenades, possibly a radar over gun barrel (like on PLZ-05 SPG), double AGS on top. On the left i guess we can see long vertical slit for direct optical sight, while on the right a camera is mounted on turret roof edge. Cannon's recoil system is mounted assymetrically, 3 cylinders are visible near gun mantlet. Chassis is reversed tank chassis with engine deck in the front. Circle thingy in the middle of LFP is cooling fan access hatch. Grills are sort-of visible on UFP, indicating air intakes.

 

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   From the side we have better view on engine compartment layout, and it is very similar to classic Soviet tanks arrangement, with small changes to air exhaust location. Engine exhaust is located over 1st roller, while air exhaust is placed over drive sprockets and to the side, instead of usual Soviet location on top of engine deck. Air intake is located on upper part of engine deck, behind gun stop, but before a "step" of crewed section of the hull.

 

   Overall not that much was done with chassis of a tank to make chassis for this SPG, at least when it comes to engine compartment. Air exhaust was moved to the sides probably to move hot air flow from area just above engine compartment roof to somewhere where they will be away from sight LOS/Gun/etc.

 

   Main combat systems are located in turret and crewed part of the hull, but nothing is known about those.

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2S18 Pat-S, an experimental precursor to the 2S31.  Armament was a SA61 152mm howitzer.    

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New Japanese 155 mm SPG    

What would be the rationale for using (buying or borrowing?) K9s in Korea over the M109s that are in use besides maybe some slight logistical ease? I wasn't aware of any interest by the US army of pursuing the K9 for any future use, not with the XM1299 in development.

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9 hours ago, Beer said:

 

The driver must feel really happy to have both exhaust tubes on his side. Just saying. 

 

   Air exhaust is located on both sides, but engine exhaust is indeed located on the same side of the hull as driver's position. They should have tried to put that on other side for better comfort of driver when hatch is open.

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   Also, some changes are visible between 2018 vehicles and 2020. MANPADS are gone, some sort of sight was mounted on roof edge on the right of the gun and possibly a radar mounted on new vehicle above cannon.

 

GF8-ZWv-Y5-S1o

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On 10/25/2020 at 8:29 AM, LoooSeR said:

Vistl UGV (Belarus) armed with S-5 57 mm unguided rockets

 

 

Wasn't something similar attempted in Afghanistan, with rocket pods jury rigged onto BTRs?

 

IIRC, without the benefits of added velocity and higher AoA imparted from a helicopter, the accuracy was deemed insufficient.

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33 minutes ago, ADC411 said:

 

Wasn't something similar attempted in Afghanistan, with rocket pods jury rigged onto BTRs?

 

IIRC, without the benefits of added velocity and higher AoA imparted from a helicopter, the accuracy was deemed insufficient.

   Yes, S-5 and S-8 AFAIK needs to be launched from moving platform to stabilise properly. Don't know results of those test fires. If they use them to dire at targets in direct LOS at short-ish ranges, it could be not terrible.

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For me the issue is for what it shall be used? The rockets have rather short range even when fired from an aircraft and the accuracy is greatly reduced already by firing them from helicopters instead of fixed-winged aircraft (at least I remember seeing a table showing that) and they are designed to be a direct fire weapon, not an artillery rocket. Direct-fire weapons generally need to have certain precision or they need to be at least fired from above so they don't become just a waste of ordonance hiting the ground and the sky instead of the target. 

 

So what can you do with an UGV armed with them? To fire a volley on a nearby apartment block? Isn't that too little? 

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3 minutes ago, Beer said:

For me the issue is for what it shall be used? The rockets have rather short range even when fired from an aircraft and the accuracy is greatly reduced already by firing them from helicopters instead of fixed-winged aircraft (at least I remember seeing a table showing that) and they are designed to be a direct fire weapon, not an artillery rocket. Direct-fire weapons generally need to have certain precision or they need to be at least fired from above so they don't become just a waste of ordonance hiting the ground and the sky instead of the target. 

 

So what can you do with an UGV armed with them? To fire a volley on a nearby apartment block? Isn't that too little? 

   Man, live Belarus alone, they have UGV that does many booms, looks good on video!

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      HJ-10 ATGM on DongFeng armored car chassis

https://dambiev.livejournal.com/2110017.html

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   The first photos of vehicles from the battery of the Chinese self-propelled ATGM HJ-10 on the chassis of the third generation Dongfeng Warrior armored vehicle. The first photo shows the vehicle of the battery commander of the HJ-10 self-propelled ATGM system, the second photo shows the HJ-10 self-propelled ATGM system itself, the third one shows the transport-loading vehicle, and the fourth one shows the ammunition delivery vehicle.

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Spoiler

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   EFOGM/FOG-M, American Spike-NLOS from 1990s and early 2000s. Man in the loop, IR/TV, 15 km max range, cruise speed about 100 m/s and altitude ~300 meters. Fiberoptic datalink, each missile weight was about 45 kg. Was supposed to be launched from 4x4 with 8 missile per vehicle.

 

 

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https://iz.ru/1081898/anton-lavrov-roman-kretcul/iskander-mladshii-voennye-poluchat-giperzvukovye-minirakety

   Looks like our military don't want Hermes in current form, but they want system with higher speed, named Klevok-2D, fitted with ramjet engine. Not sure where VTRK fits, as it was supposed to be weapon of the same-ish class.

 

   System description:

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Iskander Jr.: the military will receive hypersonic mini-missiles

 

   The country has begun the creation of the latest hypersonic light-class missile, sources in the military-industrial complex told Izvestia. The development, according to them, is being carried out as part of the implementation of the concept of high-precision tactical missile systems. The novelty is capable of hitting targets at a range of hundreds of kilometers - to cover this distance, it will take a few seconds. Experts claim that now Russian troops will radically increase their firepower.

 

Compact hypersonic

   The development of new missiles has begun on the basis of technical solutions for the Hermes missile complex project, Izvestia sources in the defense industry said. The principal difference between the weapons, which received the working designation "Klevok-D2", will be the use of a new ramjet engine. It will accelerate the missile to hypersonic speed, which will dramatically increase its range and make it invulnerable to modern air defense systems.

   Earlier, Izvestia reported that the military department approved the concept of introducing high-precision tactical missile systems into ground brigades and divisions. Compact launchers can be mounted on Typhoon and Tiger armored vehicles. Targets for them will be detected by drones and soldiers with KRUS "Strelets" kits. The new weapons will take an intermediate place between artillery and heavy operational-tactical Iskander-M missile systems. According to the terms of reference for the development of the components of the complex, the new ammunition can be used from a variety of platforms, both ground and air. The launch weight in the transport and launch container will not exceed 150 kilograms. The caliber of 207 mm taken from "Hermes" will not change either. A warhead weighing 57 kg should be enough to destroy both armored vehicles and light shelters or individual buildings. According to sources, the rocket will be equipped with wings that unfold after launch. After taking off with the help of a detachable launch stage and giving the initial acceleration, the flight will continue on the cruise ramjet engine. On it, it will accelerate to several thousand kilometers per hour in 40 seconds. The terms of reference indicated that it should be optimized for movement at a level of up to five speeds of sound, which is the official boundary for the beginning of hypersound.

/.../

   Development under the designation "Klevok" has been known since the 90s of the last century. The sample created within their framework is now known as "Hermes". The novelty will use part of his developments, but in the version with a ramjet rocket engine "Klevok-D2" will fly much further and faster.

 

   Viktor Murakhovkiy commentary about system, tactical purpose:

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   "- Previously, the combined arms divisions included Tochka missile systems, which are outdated and have been removed from service. And the divisions received nothing in return,” military expert Viktor Murakhovsky told Izvestia.

   “As a result, they had no long-range firepower left. At the same time, the area of responsibility of motorized rifle and tank brigades and divisions has expanded, and the scope of operations that they must carry out in accordance with new combat documents has increased. And from the means of fire, these formations have only barreled artillery and multiple launch rocket systems. Their range does not allow them to operate over the entire depth of the division's zone of responsibility. As a result, the commander is forced to ask the senior commander for resources. This is an abnormal situation. The commander must have at hand his own firepower capable of solving reconnaissance and strike missions.

   It is possible to direct new long-range missile systems in a variety of ways: from drones, using radar reconnaissance or information from military intelligence units, the expert added.

 

 

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16 hours ago, LoooSeR said:

   Dana M2

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I think that this is the modernized version of Polish army which they call simply Dana-M. It's built in cooperation of Polish companies EZU, WG Polska and Czech Excalibur Army. 

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   PLA AH4 towed 155 mm caliber cannon. If i see it right this artillery piece have MV measuring radar on top of recoil mechanism above gun barrel. It also have computer screen on the left for gunner, so i suspect there is some sort of build-in FCS used on this thing.

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   Few more pics of North Korean super-big MRLS (possibly ~600mm caliber) during recent night parade. Note 2 wheeled versions with 2nd one having 5 missiles vs 4 on 1st versionm while both are 4 axle truck-based launchers. Tracked have highest number of carried missiles, 6 per vehicle. And photos of other operation-level systems. Tracked chassis for MRLS and tactical missile system look same-ish, but looking closer shows that they have different chassis. Not sure why Norks made 2 trucks with same number of wheels for same system.

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https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2020/11/inconvenient-arms-north-korean-weapons.html

   Some interesting info on North Korean MRLS and SRBM for ME countries.

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/.../

   While it may be long forgotten now, there was a time when North Korean armament was quite advanced compared to what was available on the open market (insofar as that was ever a thing), and their near monopoly on ballistic missile exports to non-(Western- or Soviet-)aligned gave them a significant revenue boost. 

/.../

   Take the case of the United Arab Emirates. Like surprisingly many countries across the globe, it was at one point quite eager to invest in the latest technology on offer by the DPRK, yet it has carefully avoided making this fact known to observers since.

 

UAE

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North Korean 240mm MRLS firing during a UAE armed forces exercise

 

Screenshot-28369-29

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A Hwasong-5 based on a MAN KAT-1 TEL, as seen in a North Korean arms brochure showcased in The Mole: Infiltrating North Korea.

 

kouae.jpg

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The "M-1989" Koksan as displayed at the IDEX 2005 in the UAE.

 

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