General artillery, SPGs, MLRS and long range ATGMs thread.

[Lord_James]

1 hour ago, LoooSeR said:

... that almost nobody...

 

3 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

 

That implies Msta came first. 

[LoooSeR]

36 minutes ago, Lord_James said:

That implies Msta came first. 

   Msta-S development started in early-mid 70s, Dana in late 70s IIRC. 

[Beer]

26 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

   Msta-S development started in early-mid 70s, Dana in late 70s IIRC. 

 

Not that I would consider it of any importance but for the sake of facts.

 

Dana

- start of development 1969

- first prototype 1972

- first serial delivery 1979

 

Msta-S

- start of development 1980

- first serial delivery 1988 

[Lord_James]

36 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

   Msta-S development started in early-mid 70s, Dana in late 70s IIRC. 

Are you referencing that autoloading artillery prototypes were being tested then, or the actual Msta-S prototype/pre-series? 

[LoooSeR]

5 minutes ago, Beer said:

 

Not that I would consider it of any importance but for the sake of facts.

 

Dana

- start of development 1969

- first prototype 1972

- first serial delivery 1979

 

Msta-S

- start of development 1980

- first serial delivery 1988 

Msta-S was in development from 1976, to be specific.

[LoooSeR]

11 minutes ago, Lord_James said:

Are you referencing that autoloading artillery prototypes were being tested then, or the actual Msta-S prototype/pre-series? 

   I was taking years from my memory, i remember that USSR was working on autoloaded SPGs in 70s and even earlier. For Msta-S development years were in first half of 70s, at least that i had in my memory. I quickly checked now, it is 1976.

   Anyway, it is still strange that nobody from big waepon manufacturers really pushed autoloaders for 152 mm SPGs in last 10 years until very recently. Maybe with exception of Chinese SPGs, but those are Msta-S inspired.

[Beer]

4 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

   I was taking years from my memory, i remember that USSR was working on autoloaded SPGs in 70s and even earlier. For Msta-S development years were in first half of 70s, at least that i had in my memory. I quickly checked now, it is 1976.

   Anyway, it is still strange that nobody from big waepon manufacturers really pushed autoloaders for 152 mm SPGs in last 10 years until very recently. Maybe with exception of Chinese SPGs, but those are Msta-S inspired.

 

Aside of Dana and its derivates (nearly 1000 vehicles produced so not a small production at all) also Swedish Archer has an autoloader. It is in service since 2013 and in development since 1995. 

[Alzoc]

There was also the AMX 30 Au F1 developed in the early 70s as well (first prototype in 1972 and in service in 1979) .

42 rounds stowed at 6 rpm

 

Spoiler

 

Though it use a 155 mm L39 gun, and I don't think there is any intention to modernize them any further.

As of 2019 there is only 32 left of them in reserve IIRC.

There is very little details on how the autoloader work and the only footage I have ever seen of it is only a few seconds long (from 0:48) :

 

 

[Lord_James]

1 hour ago, LoooSeR said:

Anyway, it is still strange that nobody from big waepon manufacturers really pushed autoloaders for 152 mm SPGs in last 10 years until very recently.

There were quite a few projects at the end of the Cold War for autoloading SPG’s, but a lot of them were cancelled. Same for 5+ inch guns. Now, about 30 years later, the exact same weapons and features are being trialed (autoloading artillery, 130 or 140mm guns, active protection, reduced crew/crew less vehicles, etc.)... huh, really makes you think. 

[TokyoMorose]

6 hours ago, Lord_James said:

There were quite a few projects at the end of the Cold War for autoloading SPG’s, but a lot of them were cancelled. Same for 5+ inch guns. Now, about 30 years later, the exact same weapons and features are being trialed (autoloading artillery, 130 or 140mm guns, active protection, reduced crew/crew less vehicles, etc.)... huh, really makes you think. 

 

Well sure, the magical funtimes of the 90s when they can cancel everything everywhere because we've reached the end of history and major war will never happen again (right, Fukuyama?) were never going to last and a lot of people active then were furious at the peace dividend, but politicos and a good chunk of brass were confident that their late 80s hardware would be all that would be needed for the foreseeable future. Heck, some western armies went as far as doing things like outright shutting down their armored units due to a lack of possible use (in the view of the time.)

 

That said, pour one out for the XM2001. Wouldn't need to be bothering with this XM1299 work, and the LV-100-5 would have made it into production for the never-ending Abrams family.

 

 

[ADC411]

Uraltransmash delivered a new batch of 2S19M2 SPGs to the Russian MoD. No word on the size of the delivery or the recipients:

 

https://rostec.ru/news/uraltransmash-postavil-partiyu-samokhodnykh-gaubits-ministerstvu-oborony-rf/

[LoooSeR]

   4 LNA El'brus TEL showed during parade

   Windows are damaged on this one, heh.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[LoooSeR]

   Iskander receiving new "stealthy and highly maneuverable" missile

https://iz.ru/1172540/2021-06-01/iskandery-poluchat-neuiazvimye-rakety

 

Quote

   Sources in the Ministry of Defense told Izvestia that the development of the latest missiles for the Iskander began in 2016 and the ammunition is currently in a high degree of readiness. Its tests were already carried out in August last year at the Kapustin Yar test site.

   The rockets are made using stealth technology and belong to the "aeroballistic" class, that is, they fly along a ballistic trajectory, but do not leave the earth's atmosphere. The new items have a radio-absorbing coating and, being super-maneuverable, are capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 500 km.

Experts are confident that the new shells will radically increase the combat capabilities of the Russian Armed Forces. 

 

https://iz.ru/1172452/anton-lavrov-anna-cherepanova/snariadili-iskandery-kompleksy-poluchat-neuiazvimyi-boepripas

Quote

....at the same time, the ammunition can perform the most complex maneuvers on the trajectory, which allows it to evade enemy anti-missiles and hit ground targets with high accuracy. For the first time, the novelty was used in an exercise last year.

 

   “Most likely, the new ammunition is a further development of the 9M723 aeroballistic missile, which has been part of the Iskander-M complex for several years,” military expert Dmitry Kornev told Izvestia. - To reduce its radar signature, it was necessary to work with the shape of the hull and nose, to apply new types of materials. Perhaps the control system has changed somewhat, given the statements about the super-maneuverability of the missile.

 

   Several years ago, General Designer Valery Kashin announced that new missiles were being created for Iskander-M. This multipurpose complex is unique in itself and can simultaneously use different types of them: ballistic and cruise missiles, the expert said. 

 

[2805662]

Some marketing bumph on the AS9 variant of the K9 under consideration on Australia. 
 

 

[Voodoo]

I wonder how much it weighs.. must be close to 50 tonnes.

[SH_MM]

Quote

highest levels of Protection and Survivability for this class of vehicle"

 

Yet no enhanced roof armor against counter-battery fire...

[N-L-M]

Gluing a German dildo mat onto the roof shouldn't be difficult.

[LoooSeR]

   Presentation of some of new SPGs/SPMs/SPHs to MoD officials, from this video

 

Spoiler

   High tech remote firing via rope through side hatch

 

   Also note collapsed suspension.

 

   Floks 120 mm SPH/SPM

 

Spoiler

   Manual loading. Gun mount is a turret with limited travel.

 

 

   Magnolia 120 mm SPH/SPM for arctic units. Have space for crew for living.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

   Mal'va 152 mm SPG. Loading assistance, ability to fire multiply rounds with aim to simultaneous impact, etc. Not bad wheeled boom stick except range, ~25km.

 

Spoiler

 

   Shell is loaded into loading assistance.

 

 

[LoooSeR]

   Better pics of Drok SPM, Floks SPH/SPM, Magnolia SPH/SPM, Mal'ba SPG from same event.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[LoooSeR]

   Koalitsiya-SV assembly, screengrabs stolen from otvaga

 

Spoiler

 

[ADC411]

27 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

   Koalitsiya-SV assembly, screengrabs stolen from otvaga

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

That last image is from the interior of the Drok 82mm self propelled mortar.

 

[LoooSeR]

1 hour ago, ADC411 said:

 

That last image is from the interior of the Drok 82mm self propelled mortar.

 

Oh yeah, my bad. Had plenty of pics to upload.

[SuperComrade]

I've always wondered what is the thinking behind these wheeled SPGs. Are they intended for low intensity warfare or as a more strategically mobile alternative to tracked SPGs?

[LoooSeR]

1 hour ago, SuperComrade said:

I've always wondered what is the thinking behind these wheeled SPGs. Are they intended for low intensity warfare or as a more strategically mobile alternative to tracked SPGs?

Yes, cheaper to serivce and wear is much lower on wheeled vehicles.

[Ramlaen]