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Anti-air thread: Everything that goes up must come down, and we'll help you go down


Bronezhilet
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   In 2021 Rostec will launch the newest air defense control systems "Magister-SV" into serial production.

 

   In 2021, the Ruselectronics holding of the Rostec State Corporation will begin serial production of the Magistr-SV military air defense automated fire control system. The new unified module is designed for airspace reconnaissance using external and built-in reconnaissance and anti-aircraft combat coordination. The development passed state tests and was accepted for supplying the Russian army.

 

   The complex includes a unique optoelectronic station with the functions of automatic detection, recognition and tracking of air targets. To provide such technical capabilities, the developers needed to create a database of the optical characteristics of various air targets and the characteristics of the radiation of natural interference. A small-sized radar detector combines the capabilities of a surveillance radar and the high accuracy of coordinate measurement inherent in radar tracking systems.

   The architecture implemented in it is ahead of all currently known radar detection tools. When developing a unified control module, special attention was paid to increasing the stealthiness and survivability of the air defense grouping.

   It is also possible to integrate a promising and existing anti-aircraft weapon into the air defense control subsystem, capable of fighting against attacking elements of high-precision weapons and multipurpose unmanned aerial vehicles.

 

   As part of Rostec, the development and production of unified modules "Magister-SV" is carried out by NPP "Rubin" of the "Vega" concern of the "Ruselectronics" holding.

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There definitely seems to be a pattern here. Is it just that top heavy? I find it really hard to get a balanced take on Pantsir - Russian sources seem to sell it as the greatest thing ever to happen to SHORAD, while Western sources portray it as cannon fodder for lowly Turkish TB2's...

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IMHO You can judge by naked eye that the center of gravity must be indeed very high.

 

As for the performance I think that Turkish or Israeli heavy use of EW and decoys and a stand-alone use outside of well integrated layered AD network is the reason for its somewhat questionable performance. On the other hand we haven't seen other systems performing better in comparable environment (although there are such claims about Tor). We have seen number of proofs that Pantsir clearly is capable to take out drones and PGMs but we have also seen a lot of them being taken out, however majority of them (not all) were clearly switched off (radar in transport mode, stored in hangars etc.). I dare to say that the combat record is more about limits of SHORAD platforms overall than about Pantsir alone. One particular problem of such systems is the short range which allows the striking platforms to attack it without getting inside the engagement envelope. 

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Also, if the old marketing material for Pantsir is to be believed, it appears that it was designed more to shoot down Tomahawk-class guided missiles at shortish ranges than MALE drones or small ATGM sized missiles. Which makes stuff like the Spike NLOS or TB-2/MAM-L combo difficult to deal with. 

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2 hours ago, Boagrius said:

There definitely seems to be a pattern here. Is it just that top heavy? I find it really hard to get a balanced take on Pantsir - Russian sources seem to sell it as the greatest thing ever to happen to SHORAD, while Western sources portray it as cannon fodder for lowly Turkish TB2's...

   I covered Kamaz chassis that was used for Pantsir, there is an interview somewhere on this forum with soldiers that drive that truck. They drive it carefully, because it have noticeable height and not wide enough, with heavy components on top of the vehicle. Originally Pantsir system was mounted and tested on BAZ-produced truck, which had wider base and lower height of SHORAD module.

 

   Perfomance of this system depend on target type, integration in AA network and used counter-measure against it. System wasn't really designed to take out certain types of drones, although i remember there were claims that at short range in automatic mode it have probability to take out ATGM-sized missiles.

 

   About half or even majority of destroyed Pantsirs were inactive (In Libya mostly). In the same time there are several Pantsirs that were taken out when they were clearly active, although we don't know if it was under EW attack, or what was happening inside of crew cabin, what intel they had on possible threats,  how much targets they engaged before getting hit, etc. Because Pantsirs were basically most of AA that UAE supplied to Libya, it is obviously is going to be most frequent in list of destroyed AA systems.

   Lostarmour site have a list of drones in Libya that were shot down with photos, most of those drones (a lot of TB2s) were killed by Pantsir, so system showed ability to do its job. 

 

   Another point is that no other system of same type on the planet had this level and amount of combat experience so far. Will be interesting what was learned from its use in Syria and Libya. First visible change was addition of small-sized AA missiles so multiply missiles could be mounted inside of standart missile container. What else was changed is unknown, software, radars, sights, etc.

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Great post, thanks for the overview. I suspect the real test of Pantsir would be how it performed as part of a modern IADS - for example when acting as point defense for a HIMAD asset like S400. So far we only seem to see it used in isolation, leaving it more vulnerable to being picked off peacemeal...

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   A bit unusual
 

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   The world's first "air mining" system, designed to destroy unmanned aerial vehicles with loitering munition, was developed in Russia, Alexander Zakharov, chief designer of the ZALA Aero group of companies, said on the air of the Vesti Nedeli program with Dmitry Kiselev on the Russia-1 TV channel ...

   The basis of the new system is the "Lancet" loitering munition developed by ZALA Aero. "They can be sent into the sky and work as aerial mining for several tens of hours," Zakharov said. According to him, combat drones of a potential enemy have speeds of the order of 150 km / h, and the Lancet is capable of hitting them. “We, with our 300 km / h dive, will do it quite calmly,” Zakharov added. The system is currently being tested, during which air balloons are destroyed.

 

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   Kotsnews, [04/19/21 11:37]
And dear people corrected me that the "Lancet" with an internal combustion engine can hang in the air for 12 hours! And with hybrid engines, now they are already being put, and under 20.

   They really do not have a place for a parachute and must be disposed of somewhere. And 40 minutes is with an electric motor, "low-noise" version.

 

 

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   The Israeli concern Elbit Systems announced that it has completed the development of all the technology needed to install a powerful laser capable of intercepting short-range missiles, drones and mortar ammunition in a Hermes-900 UAV.

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Crazy footage from recent mass rocket barages over Israel which managed to saturate the Iron Dome defence and cause damage on the ground including a hit into a powerplant, oil pipe and an oil storage. 

 

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On 5/12/2021 at 5:06 PM, Beer said:

Crazy footage from recent mass rocket barages over Israel which managed to saturate the Iron Dome defence and cause damage on the ground including a hit into a powerplant, oil pipe and an oil storage. 

 

 

   From reports it seems they are launching rockets at multiply towns, instead of dumbing all payload into 1. Which results in ~low damage in targeted towns. Maybe they don't want to cause too much damage to not trigger land operation? Not sure about their reasoning.

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6 hours ago, LoooSeR said:

 

   From reports it seems they are launching rockets at multiply towns, instead of dumbing all payload into 1. Which results in ~low damage in targeted towns. Maybe they don't want to cause too much damage to not trigger land operation? Not sure about their reasoning.

 

I guess that the price of those hundreds of Iron Dome interceptors is higher than the damage on the ground. 

 

Anyway it's clear that even thousands of Hamas rockets have negligible damaging effect for Izrael. 

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https://ria.ru/20210525/kompleks-1733835565.html?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop

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   Tests of the S-500 anti-aircraft missile systems are being successfully completed, Vladimir Putin said, opening a series of meetings in Sochi with the leadership of the Defense Ministry and heads of defense industry enterprises.

/.../

   According to Deputy Defense Minister Alexei Krivoruchko, the armed forces plan to receive the first S-500 complexes in 2021, serial delivery will begin in 2025.

 

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