Tanks guns and ammunition.

[Ramlaen]

 

[SH_MM]

 

[Collimatrix]

I was just about to post that tweet.  20MJ at the muzzle, I wonder what this means.  That's quite a bit more than was stated earlier.  Are they including the sabot energy?  140mm straightwall does make some more sense if they are developing an NLOS round for it.

[Wiedzmin]

 

Interesting proof rounds from LMZ muzeum

[Lord_James]

Perhaps there was a typo in one of these tweets or news letters? 

[SH_MM]

21 hours ago, Collimatrix said:

I was just about to post that tweet.  20MJ at the muzzle, I wonder what this means.  That's quite a bit more than was stated earlier.  Are they including the sabot energy?  140mm straightwall does make some more sense if they are developing an NLOS round for it.

 

I believe that sabot energy is included, but then again Rheinmetall's 130 mm gun will supposedly deliver 19-20 MJ on target, so mabye it isn't?

[Ramlaen]

 

[Beer]

2 minutes ago, Ramlaen said:

 

 

In the table it's written: "in service". That doesn't sound right for SHARD, does it? 

[Alzoc]

Never heard of it being put in service officially but for all we know there has been a limited production run and the Leclerc can technically fire it (there was a small production run of DU OFL 120 F2).

I'm sure most of what we have in stock is still the OFL 120 F1/DM43 (because it still does the job against pretty much any expected adversary) but I doubt we don't have some more advanced APFSDS in stock if needed (not in big numbers mind you but probably some).

 

That or an order has been made and it will be the main APFDS for the Leclerc XLR.

 

If knowing what and many vehicles are in service have always been pretty easy through annual report to the senate, knowing exactly what sub-version of a system or ammunition is in service and in which numbers have always been harder.

[SH_MM]

11 minutes ago, Beer said:

In the table it's written: "in service". That doesn't sound right for SHARD, does it? 

 

The bar code is different (used in the autoloader to determine which round is loaded), the brochure shows the OFL F1B (same bar code).

[Beer]

18 minutes ago, SH_MM said:

 

The bar code is different (used in the autoloader to determine which round is loaded), the brochure shows the OFL F1B (same bar code).

 

A year ago or so the press release stated that the production shall start at the end of 2022 hence why I'm asking. 

[SH_MM]

 

On 6/14/2022 at 10:06 PM, Beer said:

A year ago or so the press release stated that the production shall start at the end of 2022 hence why I'm asking. 

Supposedly the first buyer is Indonesia for the Leopard 2RI.

[alanch90]

On 6/28/2022 at 4:18 PM, SH_MM said:

 

Supposedly the first buyer is Indonesia for the Leopard 2RI.

Is it me or the Ascalon isn´t significantly bigger than 120mm guns (unlike Rh130)? 

[SH_MM]

6 hours ago, alanch90 said:

Is it me or the Ascalon isn´t significantly bigger than 120mm guns (unlike Rh130)? 

 

No, the size of both guns is pretty much comparable. Also both of them have the same quoted weight (3,000 kilograms). The breech block of the current ASCALON prototype is bigger than Rheinmetall's, but it is supposedly to be changed in the future.

 

 

I guess the polygonal shape of the thermal sleeve make the barrel appear thicker, so the gun might seem shorter/smaller in relation to that. However the overall length of the ASCALON gun (including muzzle brake) is greater.

 

 

Not entirely for scale, just estimated based on the rough figures given for barrel lenght.

[Ramlaen]

500 round life is pretty bad, if true it would explain why there has been so little interest in the gun.

 

[FORMATOSE]

On 7/1/2022 at 9:38 PM, Ramlaen said:

500 round life is pretty bad, if true it would explain why there has been so little interest in the gun.

 

 

You're gonna tell me that the designers didn't even noticed the excessive barrel wear throughout its development despite the fact than more than 15 000 rounds have been fired ?

 

This is very easy to blame the joint company who designed the gun.  One can say that a poorly maintained gun wear out more quickly.

 

[Dragonstriker]

1 hour ago, Sovngard said:

 

You're gonna tell me that the designers didn't even noticed the excessive barrel wear throughout its development despite the fact than more than 15 000 rounds have been fired ?

 

This is very easy to blame the joint company who designed the gun.  One can say that a poorly maintained gun wear out more quickly.

 

Nobody said the designers didn’t notice.

It seems more likely that barrel wear was just insoluble in the design space and determined to be a necessary trade off.

Further, how can guns not in service be poorly maintained?

[Alzoc]

1 hour ago, Dragonstriker said:

It seems more likely that barrel wear was just insoluble in the design space and determined to be a necessary trade off.

It is also possible that this is yet another consequence of the British mucking around the feed system (don't quite remember the particulars) instead of using the one that was designed for the gun. For example, could the chamber not sealing properly (wrong ammo positionning) cause this kind of reduction of barrel life (asking the question as I don't know)?

 

The minimal goals for barrel life was 10 000 rounds if I recall correctly. I have a hard time believing that the DGA would accept a gun that can't even reach a 1/20^th of the minimal specs.

 

It could also be the simple explanation : If you want to kill your dog, accuse him of having rabies.

[FORMATOSE]

On 6/30/2022 at 11:00 AM, SH_MM said:

 

BTW, where did you get that side pic of the ASCALON ?

[SH_MM]

14 hours ago, Sovngard said:

BTW, where did you get that side pic of the ASCALON ?

 

It is a screenshot from Nexter's ASCALON testing video (available on YouTube and the earlier posted tweet).

[Serge]

About the Nexter 120mm Shard Mk1. 

Leopard 2 and Leclerc compatible ;

new 3 pieces sabot ;

Reduces tears of the barrel ;

Ready for a Mk2 standard ;

lesson learned readily used for 140mm Ascalon. 

[Alzoc]

More technical details on the ASCALON :

 

https://www.forcesoperations.com/ascalon-du-concept-aux-champs-de-tirs-portugais/

 

• Energy of an APFSDS rod at the muzzle of 17 to 20 MJ
• Increased energy attained by increasing the volume of the chamber which is doubled compared to the Leclerc. For comparaison Rhm went the other way with their 130 mm, they kept a small chamber volume (15L) and increased the peak pressure, so we can assume the volume of the ASCALON's chamber is probably around 30L 20L (thanks @SH_MMfor the correction). Lower peak pressure in the ASCALON may (if the gun can handle it) indicate more growth potential by increasing the peak pressure in the future.
• Peak pressure in the ASCALON's chamber is lower than in the Leclerc (GIAT CN120-26). For comparaison the nominal pressure for the Leclerc firing an OFL 120 F1/DM43 at 21°C is around 4160 bars (don't know the peak value associated).
• Gun lenght of 7,3 m (40 cm more than the Leclerc's 120 mm L52 and 10 cm more than Rhm's 130 mm)
• Mass of around 3 tons (roughly the same than Rhm's 130 mm)
• The semi-telescoped APFSDS round is 1,3 m long for a mass around 30 kg.

[SH_MM]

6 minutes ago, Alzoc said:

Increased energy attained by increasing the volume of the chamber which is doubled compared to the Leclerc. For comparaison Rhm went the other way with their 130 mm, they kept a small chamber volume (15L) and increased the peak pressure (so we can assume the volume of the ASCALON's chamber is probably around 30L).

 

The chamber volume of a 120 x 570 mm smoothbore gun is 10.2 litres. So ASCALON's would be ~20 litre-ish (while basically the whole sabot of APFSDS rounds would be included in that).

[Serge]

The chamber is a little bit larger

[FORMATOSE]

A more detailed article on the ASCALON :

 

https://lasd.online/140-ascalon/