StuG III Thread (and also other German vehicles I guess)

[LoooSeR]

[Collimatrix]

Panther's roadwheels were also supposed to have a strange tendency to delaminate.

[EnsignExpendable]

 

Dude, you just got chop shopped!

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

 

 

Someones about to lose a toe. 

[EnsignExpendable]

Yuri Pasholok posted archive photos of a top secret German vehicle. Only two things are known about it: it has a crew of 4 and it was never penetrated in combat.

 

[EnsignExpendable]

It's uh... a thing.

 

 

Edit: look guys, a "tank destroyer"

 

[LeuCeaMia]

People keep ragging on about commander's cupolas being such a German advantage, yet why don't the Jagdpanther, Jagdpanzer and Jagdtiger have them ?

 

[EnsignExpendable]

People keep ragging on about commander's cupolas being such a German advantage, yet why don't the Jagdpanther, Jagdpanzer and Jagdtiger have them ?

I don't think any of their tank destroyers/assault guns did.

[Walter_Sobchak]

I don't think any of their tank destroyers/assault guns did.

Stugs had a commanders cupola, at least, from the Ausf G onward.  

 

According to wiki:  A rotating cupola with periscopes was added for the commander for Ausf G. However, from September 1943, the lack of ball bearings (resulting from USAAF bombing of Schweinfurt) forced cupolas to be welded on. Ball bearings were once again installed from August 1944. Shot deflectors for the cupolas were first installed from October 1943 from one factory, to be installed on all StuGs from February 1944. Some vehicles without shot deflectors carried several track pieces wired around the cupola for added protection.

[EnsignExpendable]

Further cementing the StuG as the best German tank.

[Tied]

People keep ragging on about commander's cupolas being such a German advantage, yet why don't the Jagdpanther, Jagdpanzer and Jagdtiger have them ?

 

 

Hold your horses there silver, the Jadpanzer had a commader's periscope, sherman style, pretty nifty if you ask me

[Mohamed A]

People keep ragging on about commander's cupolas being such a German advantage, yet why don't the Jagdpanther, Jagdpanzer and Jagdtiger have them ?

 

 

They didn't need them. They were meant to be used as ambush/defense tanks. You are meant to know where the enemy was comming.. Most of the time anyway.

 

German crews did like German cupolas, though (and tbh, their cupolas are much better than the T-34 "hatch". Should've used T-72 style hatch with glass in between. The early T-34 one protects you from fire, sure, but it also blocks visibility). If I am not wrong, it was Otto Carius who designed the Leopard 1's cupola. 

 

 

Further cementing the StuG as the best German tank.

 

It's not a tank though.. At least by German classification. (though the StuG IV did replace Panzer IV losses funnily enough. along with the Jagdpanzer IV)

 

I don't know much about the Kanonenjagdpanzer, but it seems to use StuG III Ausf. G style cupola? 

 

 

Hold your horses there silver, the Jadpanzer had a commader's periscope, sherman style, pretty nifty if you ask me

 

You sure...? IIRC they only had scherenfernrohr for the commander and a telescope sight for the gunner.

[EnsignExpendable]

They didn't need them. They were meant to be used as ambush/defense tanks. You are meant to know where the enemy was comming.. Most of the time anyway.

 

German crews did like German cupolas, though (and tbh, their cupolas are much better than the T-34 "hatch". Should've used T-72 style hatch with glass in between. The early T-34 one protects you from fire, sure, but it also blocks visibility). If I am not wrong, it was Otto Carius who designed the Leopard 1's cupola.

Which T-34 cupola are you talking about? I can't recall anything about the design that blocks visibility.

It's not a tank though.. At least by German classification. (though the StuG IV did replace Panzer IV losses funnily enough. along with the Jagdpanzer IV)

 

I don't know much about the Kanonenjagdpanzer, but it seems to use StuG III Ausf. G style cupola?

"StuG best German tank" is a bit of a running gag around here.

[Mohamed A]

Which T-34 cupola are you talking about? I can't recall anything about the design that blocks visibility.

 

It's not a cupola per se, it's more of a steel block... Hatch? It blocks frontal visibility, but protects you from frontal small arms fire. T-72 is the same, but it has glass in the middle so you can see.

[Donward]

Which T-34 cupola are you talking about? I can't recall anything about the design that blocks visibility.

"StuG best German tank" is a bit of a running gag around here.

Whereas the Panther is a bit of a breaking down gag around here...

[EnsignExpendable]

It's not a cupola per se, it's more of a steel block... Hatch? It blocks frontal visibility, but protects you from frontal small arms fire. T-72 is the same, but it has glass in the middle so you can see.

Oh, that's what you meant. The T-34-76 had a periscope for observation. If you really wanted to stick your head out, there was an opening in the hatch meant for flares or grenades that you could look through, not to mention the gap between the hatch and the roof.

[Mohamed A]

Oh, that's what you meant. The T-34-76 had a periscope for observation. If you really wanted to stick your head out, there was an opening in the hatch meant for flares or grenades that you could look through, not to mention the gap between the hatch and the roof.

 

Oh, OK. Thanks.

[Collimatrix]

Leo 1 has both a commander's cupola and a rotating, magnified periscope.  Ogorkiewicz's opinion from the early 1990s is that experience had shown both to be important.

 

The British motion studies are generally positive about the commander's station in the big cats.  The commander has enough space to do their job well, and the cupola provides a relatively good view when they're buttoned down (although I've also read that the Germans and Soviets both preferred to go into combat with open hatches because even a well-designed cupola is greatly inferior to direct vision).  Target handoff to the gunner, however, is consistently stated to be miserable.

 

The gunner doesn't have any unmagnified optics covering the field of fire of the gun.  They do have one periscope, but it's fixed and points off to the side.  So, most likely, the commander will spot the target.  Now they need to get the turret pointed at the target.  They don't have any fancy turret-align facility (like some late shermans would), so they have to line up the turret to the target by a graduated angle indicator (the exact design of which varied), and hopefully the gunner can find it through the sight.  Also, the big cats had fairly slow turret rotation, especially early models of panther.

 

No wonder that the French found it took thirty seconds on average to get the gun aligned to a target the commander had located.

[Tied]

 

 

You sure...? IIRC they only had scherenfernrohr for the commander and a telescope sight for the gunner.

 

 

Positive it has rotating periscope in the commander's hatch

Pretty damn good optics for a German tank destroyer i suppose 

[EnsignExpendable]

Leo 1 has both a commander's cupola and a rotating, magnified periscope.  Ogorkiewicz's opinion from the early 1990s is that experience had shown both to be important.

 

The British motion studies are generally positive about the commander's station in the big cats.  The commander has enough space to do their job well, and the cupola provides a relatively good view when they're buttoned down (although I've also read that the Germans and Soviets both preferred to go into combat with open hatches because even a well-designed cupola is greatly inferior to direct vision).  Target handoff to the gunner, however, is consistently stated to be miserable.

 

The gunner doesn't have any unmagnified optics covering the field of fire of the gun.  They do have one periscope, but it's fixed and points off to the side.  So, most likely, the commander will spot the target.  Now they need to get the turret pointed at the target.  They don't have any fancy turret-align facility (like some late shermans would), so they have to line up the turret to the target by a graduated angle indicator (the exact design of which varied), and hopefully the gunner can find it through the sight.  Also, the big cats had fairly slow turret rotation, especially early models of panther.

 

No wonder that the French found it took thirty seconds on average to get the gun aligned to a target the commander had located.

 

The Soviet manual allowed for opening your hatch if you lost your target, not driving around with your head sticking out all willy nilly.

[Collimatrix]

Per Bojan on TN, actual practice was different.

[Tied]

Same thread said the T-72 had shitty visibility, so i would take anything they said for a barrel of salt 

[EnsignExpendable]

Trials of German tanks captured by the Western Allies. My favourite part is when the Tiger II loses a race to a Valentine.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGAYdq6eakc&feature=youtu.be

[Scolopax]

Interesting to see the Vk 30.01H in the end there.  E-100 footage cool as well.

[Tied]

Trials of German tanks captured by the Western Allies. My favourite part is when the Tiger II loses a race to a Valentine.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGAYdq6eakc&feature=youtu.be

 

Thats the Porshe turrent version, which is even faster than the H, which is when the Nazi's decided it might actually benefit them to start putting armor on their turrents