Jump to content
Sturgeon's House

StuG III Thread (and also other German vehicles I guess)


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.9k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

from physical version of Mittler Report issue on KF41 Lynx (low-res scans are posted on htka.hu forum)   So, I've made couple of comparisons, to the best of my ability

Maybe me knowledge will suffice as well.   This is the VT-001 (Versuchsträger) prototype of the Marder 2 vehicle. With the introduction of the Leopard 2 there was a need for a new IFV t

A Dingo 2 of the Belgian army was hit by a pressure-activated IED consisting of about 30 kg explosives. The vehicle was part of a German-lead convoy, several German vehicles narrowly missed the IED be

Telefunken RACOMS has been awarded a contract to upgrade the optics and electronics of the Wiesel AFV. The upgrade will include new digital screens and optics, i.e. the ELOPTRIS LR sight with integrated FCS, third generation thermal sight, laser rangefinder and daylight camera. A total of 196 Wiesels is to be upgraded.

 

https://esut.de/2019/11/meldungen/ruestung2/16611/telefunken-racoms-liefert-neue-optronik-fuer-aufklaerungswiesel-und-wiesel-mk-20/

Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, SH_MM said:

US Army's ASAALT still interested in Puma?

 

It's just a dude posing with one of the vehicles they have for a photo op, I wouldn't read too much into it. Krauss-Maffei bringing it to AUSA though seems to indicate they think there's a chance, and it seems like it would be a great competitor if they could get a 50MM in the turret.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Germany has ordered 10 anti-drone systems for the Boxer as part of the qualifizierte Fliegerabwehr project of the NNbS (Nah- und Nächstbereichsschutz) (V)SHORAD program. The systems consist of a Protector RWS from Kongsberg, a Spexer radar from Hendsoldt and a number of additional computers/sensors enabling automatic target tracking. The RWS will be fitted with a 40 mm grenade launcher (likely H&K's GMW and air-burst munitions. Rheinmetall proposed a similar system using a FLW-200 RWS, a SEOSS sight and Israeli radar panels, but this bid was apparently worse:

 

 

Delivery of all systems is to occur within 24 months, as it is purchased for Germany's contingent of the VJTF 2023.

 

https://esut.de/2019/12/meldungen/ruestung2/17234/qualifizierte-fliegerabwehr-bundeswehr-entscheidet-sich-fuer-kongsberg-protector/

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

71 Marder 1A5 and 1A5A1 IFVs will receive a new engine, partly in case that the Puma's reliability/spare part supply isn't sufficient by 2023 (when Germany takes the lead of the VJTF) and partly due to the fact that the Marder IFV has to remain in service for a longer time, because orders were cut/delayed in an attempt to save money. Now more money has to be spent, as the Marders still will be replaced by Pumas in the mid-term, but receive new engines as short term solution.

 

At this point one has to ask if buying a highly-modded CV90 would not have been more reasonable, at least economically.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

What type of engine will be placed in Marder? Something from Type 890 family or overhauled MB833?

 

Quote

As a first step in replacing the drivetrain, a new powerpack will be installed in all of the vehicles, which will boost the Marder’s engine output from 600 to over 750 HP. The new powerpack will significantly enhance the tried-and-tested vehicle’s responsiveness. Here, the Bundeswehr has opted for a highly advanced, forward-looking new solution proposed by well-known German manufacturers.

 

https://www.rheinmetall.com/en/rheinmetall_ag/press/news/latest_news/index_19584.php

Link to post
Share on other sites

A Dingo 2 of the Belgian army was hit by a pressure-activated IED consisting of about 30 kg explosives. The vehicle was part of a German-lead convoy, several German vehicles narrowly missed the IED before the Dingo activated it. All passengers survived, two suffered minor wounds from unsecured objects sent flying inside the vehicle by the IED's detonation.

 

EOKLgweX0AASrkO.jpg

EOKLgwpX0AUMDFP.jpg

EOKLgwsXsAEppTC.jpg

 

The Marder 1 upgrade will be based around a ~ 563 kW engine from Liebherr, not MTU. It seems that this is the same engine Rheinmetall previously mounted on the Lynx KF31, which makes sense and also means that at least some of the money invested into the Lynx KF31 has managed to generate profit. I wonder if at some time the Lance turret also will end up on the Marder, if politicians decide to spend more/less on defence or delays with Puma's full readiness will continue...

Despite the Marder 1 upgrade (which is partly introduced out of fear that the Puma might not be ready for the VJTF 2023 in high enough numbers with sufficient spare parts), Rheinmetall claims that the Puma S1 will be ready for the German lead of the VJTF in the Baltics. The second batch of Pumas (for which the budget has already been approved) hasn't ordered yet, as the original batch isn't finished.

 

The Wiesel 1 upgrade contract has been signed with FFG. The upgrade encompasses improved protection incl. add-on armor and mine protection kit, new optics and an optimized drivetrain. The Rh 202 autocannon is kept, as apparently no worthy replacement option has been found. There were rumors of the Mauser BK 27 used by the German airforce and navy being considered, but I've never seen any official source. The anti-tank version with TOW missile launcher will however see an upgrade, as the old missile system will be replaced by MELLS (Spike-LR). Not all Wiesel 1s (only 196 out of more than 300) will be upgraded, these 196 vehicles will be distributed into the following variants: - 15 driving training vehicles, 16 Wiesel 1s in the reconnaissance variant, 110 Wiesel Mk 20 and 55 Wiesel 1 anti-tank missile.

 

Nq0kl1j.jpgSmQ3ODo.jpg

 

One of the main reasons for not upgrading all Wiesel 1s is the decision to adopt a version of the Boxer with autocannon (known as project "MaKaBo", Maschinenkanone Boxer). As reported by ESuT, after evaluating different existing options for the Boxer, the Bundeswehr has apparently decided that a manned turret is a mandatory requirement, which supposedly leads to Rheinmetall being the winner - at least an official article by the Bundeswehr claimed that the LANCE turret will be fitted. Btw. the weight of a LANCE 1 turret with full armor, missile launcher and 30 mm Mauser MK-30/2 ABM reaches 5,2 tonnes! Each heavy company of the Jäger battalions and the Gebirgsjäger battalion 231 will have twelve Boxers with autocannon (in three platoons of four vehicle) - at the moment there are twelve Wiesel 1s (six with 20 mm Rh 202 and six with TOW launchers) in the heavy companies.

The LuWa program (next-generation air-droppable light weapon carrier; supposed up to twice as heavy as Wiesel 1) will provide a replacement for the rest of the Wiesel 1s by the mid/late-2020s.

 

Rheinmetall has also developed the Fuchs 1A8 Plus variant in cooperation with the BAAINBw, which features an improved drivetrain and power pack able to keep up better with Boxer. in theory there also could be armor improvements, as IBD Deisenroth (now part of Rheinmetall Protection Systems) has developed a new armor kit for the Fuchs, which has been fully qualified. This armor meets the full STANAG 4569 level 4 ballistic requirements, whereas the original MEXAS armor kit only reached a reduced/loosened protection requirement.

 

KMW's APVT - the amphibious vehicle based on Puma components with a boat-shaped rear end for reverse swimming - has been called Lurch (amphibian) by KMW recently, so that might become its proper name. One scenario for which KMW advertises the Lurch is river-crossing as part of pioneering (measuring depth of rivers, setting up bridges, etc.). Currently that is done via boat, historically (1970s) the German military had a lot of interest in the APE, but it didn't perform well in tests.

walk-around-detailbilder-ape-walkaround-

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/25/2020 at 12:15 AM, DIADES said:

Given MTU seems to be pulling out of AFV, I think we will see the phrase "Liebherr, not MTU." a fair bit.

 

MTU is not pulling out of the military engine market.

 

On 1/25/2020 at 9:20 AM, Willy Brandt said:

Source for the Fuchs 1A8 Plus? Also any more info on who is interested in the APVT? Seebataillon? The dutch? etc
Do you hear anything about mine laying?

 

Public sources on Fuchs 1A8 Plus seem to be a bit limited, but a number of press releases/news articles like this this one mention the upgrade:

"The company is also offering an even more advanced version of the vehicle, the 1A8 Plus, which has a new drive unit, a new transfer case, a new brake system and an improved steering system as well as monitoring and camera visualisation systems. This makes the FUCHS/FOX 1A8 Plus even more manoeuvrable in off-road terrain and considerably easier to handle. These measures will make it possible to keep the vehicle in service beyond 2030."

 

I don't know if there is any actual interest in the APVT Lurch on the side of the German military (there are probably some soldiers liking the concept, but I have no idea about what the higher-ups/decision-makers think about it). KMW seems to want Germany as a launch customer, so other countries might be more open to purchasing it.

 

I've heard/seen nothing regarding new mine laying capabilities, but that doesn't mean that someone might be working on that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, SH_MM said:

MTU is not pulling out of the military engine market.

Reassure me :)  I see the MTU website as cached in Nov 2019 listing the engines in detail and now, nothing, really nothing..  So you know they are not pulling out how?

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, DIADES said:

I see the MTU website as cached in Nov 2019 listing the engines in detail and now, nothing, really nothing..  So you know they are not pulling out how?

 

Not letting civilians & the competition see the specs of your products without an actual inquiry/request does not equate to "pulling out" of the market for military-grade engines. The fact that the navigation menu of their website contains the menu item "Defense" should make that quite obvious.They just launched their re-designed website before all new content was created, this is why you'll now can access the maritim defense product specs, which weren't available a few days ago. Their website also offers a filter option for "military vehicles", so more content will arrive soon.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Similar Content

    • By SH_MM
      Found a few higher resolution photographs from the recent North Korean military parade. We didn't have a topic for BEST KOREAN armored fighting vehicles, so here it is.
       
      New main battle tank, Abrams-Armata clone based on Ch'ŏnma turret design (welded, box-shaped turret) and Sŏn'gun hull design (i.e. centerline driver's position). The bolts of the armor on the hull front is finally visible given the increased resolution. It might not be ERA given the lack of lines inbetween. Maybe is a NERA module akin to the MEXAS hull add-on armor for the Leopard 2A5?
       
      Other details include an APS with four radar panels (the side-mounted radar panels look a lot different - and a lot more real - than the ones mounted at the turret corners) and twelve countermeasures in four banks (two banks à three launchers each at the turret front, two banks à three launchers on the left and right side of the turret). Thermal imagers for gunner and commander, meteorological mast, two laser warning receivers, 115 mm smoothbore gun without thermal sleeve but with muzze reference system, 30 mm grenade launcher on the turret, six smoke grenade dischargers (three at each turret rear corner)
       


       
      IMO the layout of the roof-mounted ERA is really odd. Either the armor array covering the left turret cheek is significantly thinner than the armor on the right turret cheek or the roof-mounted ERA overlaps with the armor.
       


      The first ERA/armor element of the skirt is connected by hinges and can probably swivel to allow better access to the track. There is a cut-out in the slat armor for the engine exhaust. Also note the actual turret ring - very small diameter compared to the outer dimensions of the turret.
       
      Stryker MGS copy with D-30 field gun clone and mid engine:

      Note there are four crew hatches. Driver (on the left front of the vehicle), commander (on the right front of the vehicle, seat is placed a bit further back), gunner (left side of the gun's overhead mount, next to the gunner's sight) and unknown crew member (right side of gun's overhead mount with 30 mm automatic grenade launcher mounted at the hatch). The vehicle also has a thermal imager and laser rangefinder (gunner's sight is identical to the new tank), but no independent optic for the commander. It also has the same meteorological mast and laser warner receivers as the new MBT.
       
      What is the purpose of the fourth crew member? He cannot realistically load the gun...
       
      The vehicle has a small trim vane for swimming, the side armor is made of very thin spaced steel that is bend on multiple spots, so it clearly is not ceramic armor as fitted to the actual Stryker.

       
      The tank destroyer variant of the same Stryker MGS copy fitted with a Bulsae-3 ATGM launcher.
       

      Note that there is again a third hatch with 30 mm automatic grenade launcher behind the commander's position. Laser warning receivers and trime vane are again stand-out features. The sighting complex for the Bulsae-3 ATGMs is different with a large circular optic (fitted with cover) probably being a thermal imager and two smaller lenses visible on the very right (as seen from the vehicle's point of view) probably containing a day sight and parts of the guidance system.
       

      Non line-of-sight ATGM carrier based on the 6x6 local variant of the BTR, again fitted with laser warning receivers and a trim vane. There are only two hatches and two windows, but there is a three men crew inside.
       
       
      There are a lot more photos here, but most of them are infantry of missile system (MLRS' and ICBMs).
    • By Monochromelody
      Disappeared for a long period, Mai_Waffentrager reappeared four months ago. 
      This time, he took out another photoshoped artifact. 

      He claimed that the Japanese prototype 105GSR (105 mm Gun Soft Recoil) used an autoloader similar to Swedish UDES 19 project. Then he showed this pic and said it came from a Japanese patent file. 
      Well, things turn out that it cames from Bofors AG's own patent, with all markings and numbers wiped out. 

      original file→https://patents.google.com/patent/GB1565069A/en?q=top+mounted+gun&assignee=bofors&oq=top+mounted+gun+bofors
      He has not changed since his Type 90 armor scam busted. Guys, stay sharp and be cautious. 
       
    • By LostCosmonaut
      Backstory (skip if you don't like alternate history junk)
       
      The year is 2239. It has been roughly 210 years since the world was engulfed in nuclear war. Following the war, the United States splintered into hundreds of small statelets. While much knowledge was retained in some form (mostly through books and other printed media), the loss of population and destruction of industrial capability set back society immensely.
       
      Though the Pacific Northwest was less badly hit than other areas, the destruction of Seattle and Portland, coupled with the rupturing of the Cascadia Subduction Zone in 2043, caused society to regress to a mid-19th century technology level. However, in the early 2100s, the Cascade Republic formed, centered near Tacoma. The new nation grew rapidly, expanding to encompass most of Washington and Oregon by 2239. The Cascade Republic now extends from the Klamath River in the south to the Fraser River in the north, and from the Pacific roughly to central Idaho. Over time, the standard of living and industrial development improved (initially through salvaging of surviving equipment, by the late 2100s through new development); the population has grown to about 4.5 million (comparable to 1950 levels), and technology is at about a 1940 level. Automobiles are common, aircraft are less common, but not rare by any means. Computers are nonexistent aside from a few experimental devices; while scientists and engineers are aware of the principles behind microchips and other advanced electronics, the facilities to produce such components simply do not exist. Low rate production of early transistors recently restarted.
       
      The current armored force of the Cascade Republic consists of three armored brigades. They are presently equipped with domestically produced light tanks, dating to the 2190s. Weighing roughly 12 tons and armed with a 40mm gun, they represented the apex of the Cascade Republic's industrial capabilities at the time. And when they were built, they were sufficient for duties such as pacifying survivalist enclaves in remote areas. However, since that time, the geopolitical situation has complicated significantly. There are two main opponents the Cascade Republic's military could expect to face in the near future.
       
      The first is California. The state of California was hit particularly hard by the nuclear exchange. However, in 2160, several small polities in the southern part of the state near the ruins of Los Angeles unified. Adopting an ideology not unfamiliar to North Korea, the new state declared itself the successor to the legacy of California, and set about forcibly annexing the rest of the state. It took them less than 50 years to unite the rest of California, and spread into parts of Arizona and northern Mexico. While California's expansion stopped at the Klamath River for now, this is only due to poor supply lines and the desire to engage easier targets. (California's northward advanced did provide the final impetus for the last statelets in south Oregon to unify with the Cascade Republic voluntarily).
       
      California is heavily industrialized, possessing significant air, naval, and armored capabilities. Their technology level is comparable to the Cascade Republic's, but their superior industrial capabilities and population mean that they can produce larger vehicles in greater quantity than other countries. Intelligence shows they have vehicles weighing up to 50 tons with 3 inches of armor, though most of their tanks are much lighter.

      The expected frontlines for an engagement with the Californian military would be the coastal regions in southern Oregon. Advancing up the coastal roads would allow California to capture the most populated and industrialized regions of the Cascade Republic if they advanced far enough north. Fortunately, the terrain near the border is very difficult and favors the defender;


      (near the Californian border)


      The other opponent is Deseret, a Mormon theocratic state centered in Utah, and encompassing much of Nevada, western Colorado, and southern Idaho. Recently, tension has arisen with the Cascade Republic over two main issues. The first is the poorly defined border in Eastern Oregon / Northern Nevada; the old state boundary is virtually meaningless, and though the area is sparsely populated, it does represent a significant land area, with grazing and water resources. The more recent flashpoint is the Cascade Republic's recent annexation of Arco and the area to the east. Deseret historically regarded Idaho as being within its sphere of influence, and maintained several puppet states in the area (the largest being centered in Idaho Falls). They regard the annexation of a signficant (in terms of land area, not population) portion of Idaho as a major intrusion into their rightful territory. That the Cascade Republic has repaired the rail line leading to the old Naval Reactors Facility, and set up a significant military base there only makes the situation worse.
       
      Deseret's military is light and heavily focused on mobile operations. Though they are less heavily mechanized than the Cascade Republic's forces, operating mostly armored cars and cavalry, they still represent a significant threat  to supply and communication lines in the open terrain of eastern Oregon / southern Idaho.


      (a butte in the disputed region of Idaho, near Arco)
       
      Requirements
       
      As the head of a design team in the Cascade Republic military, you have been requested to design a new tank according to one of two specifications (or both if you so desire):
       
      Medium / Heavy Tank Weight: No more than 45 tons Width: No more than 10.8 feet (3.25 meters) Upper glacis / frontal turret armor of at least 3 in (76mm) LoS thickness Side armor at least 1in (25mm) thick (i.e. resistant to HMG fire) Power/weight ratio of at least 10 hp / ton No more than 6 crew members Primary armament capable of utilizing both anti-armor and high explosive rounds Light tank Weight: No more than 25 tons Width: No more than 10.8 feet Upper glacis / frontal turret armor of at least 1 in thickness Side armor of at least 3/8 in (10mm) thickness Power/weight ratio of at least 12 hp / ton No more than 6 crew members Primary armament capable of utilizing both anti-armor and high explosive rounds  
      Other relevant information:
      Any tank should be designed to operate against either of the Cascade Republic's likely opponents (California or Deseret) The primary heavy machine gun is the M2, the primary medium machine gun is the M240. Use of one or both of these as coaxial and/or secondary armament is encouraged. The secret archives of the Cascade Republic are available for your use. Sadly, there are no running prewar armored vehicles, the best are some rusted hulks that have long been stripped of usable equipment. (Lima Tank Plant ate a 500 kt ground burst) Both HEAT and APFSDS rounds are in testing. APCR is the primary anti-armor round of the Cascade Republic. Either diesel or gasoline engines are acceptable, the Cascade Republic is friendly with oil producing regions in Canada (OOC: Engines are at about a late 1940s/early 50s tech level) The adaptability of the tank to other variants (such as SPAA, SPG, recovery vehicle, etc.) is preferred but not the primary metric that will be used to decide on a design. Ease of maintenance in the field is highly important. Any designs produced will be compared against the M4 Sherman and M3 Stuart (for medium/heavy and light tank), as these blueprints are readily available, and these tanks are well within the Cascade Republic's manufacturing capabilities.  
       
       
       
       
    • By Sovngard
      Meanwhile at Eurosatory 2018 :
       
      The Euro Main Battle Tank (EMBT), a private venture project intended for the export market.
       



×
×
  • Create New...