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StuG III Thread (and also other German vehicles I guess)


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Telefunken RACOMS has been awarded a contract to upgrade the optics and electronics of the Wiesel AFV. The upgrade will include new digital screens and optics, i.e. the ELOPTRIS LR sight with integrated FCS, third generation thermal sight, laser rangefinder and daylight camera. A total of 196 Wiesels is to be upgraded.



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39 minutes ago, SH_MM said:

US Army's ASAALT still interested in Puma?


It's just a dude posing with one of the vehicles they have for a photo op, I wouldn't read too much into it. Krauss-Maffei bringing it to AUSA though seems to indicate they think there's a chance, and it seems like it would be a great competitor if they could get a 50MM in the turret.

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Germany has ordered 10 anti-drone systems for the Boxer as part of the qualifizierte Fliegerabwehr project of the NNbS (Nah- und Nächstbereichsschutz) (V)SHORAD program. The systems consist of a Protector RWS from Kongsberg, a Spexer radar from Hendsoldt and a number of additional computers/sensors enabling automatic target tracking. The RWS will be fitted with a 40 mm grenade launcher (likely H&K's GMW and air-burst munitions. Rheinmetall proposed a similar system using a FLW-200 RWS, a SEOSS sight and Israeli radar panels, but this bid was apparently worse:



Delivery of all systems is to occur within 24 months, as it is purchased for Germany's contingent of the VJTF 2023.



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71 Marder 1A5 and 1A5A1 IFVs will receive a new engine, partly in case that the Puma's reliability/spare part supply isn't sufficient by 2023 (when Germany takes the lead of the VJTF) and partly due to the fact that the Marder IFV has to remain in service for a longer time, because orders were cut/delayed in an attempt to save money. Now more money has to be spent, as the Marders still will be replaced by Pumas in the mid-term, but receive new engines as short term solution.


At this point one has to ask if buying a highly-modded CV90 would not have been more reasonable, at least economically.

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What type of engine will be placed in Marder? Something from Type 890 family or overhauled MB833?



As a first step in replacing the drivetrain, a new powerpack will be installed in all of the vehicles, which will boost the Marder’s engine output from 600 to over 750 HP. The new powerpack will significantly enhance the tried-and-tested vehicle’s responsiveness. Here, the Bundeswehr has opted for a highly advanced, forward-looking new solution proposed by well-known German manufacturers.



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A Dingo 2 of the Belgian army was hit by a pressure-activated IED consisting of about 30 kg explosives. The vehicle was part of a German-lead convoy, several German vehicles narrowly missed the IED before the Dingo activated it. All passengers survived, two suffered minor wounds from unsecured objects sent flying inside the vehicle by the IED's detonation.






The Marder 1 upgrade will be based around a ~ 563 kW engine from Liebherr, not MTU. It seems that this is the same engine Rheinmetall previously mounted on the Lynx KF31, which makes sense and also means that at least some of the money invested into the Lynx KF31 has managed to generate profit. I wonder if at some time the Lance turret also will end up on the Marder, if politicians decide to spend more/less on defence or delays with Puma's full readiness will continue...

Despite the Marder 1 upgrade (which is partly introduced out of fear that the Puma might not be ready for the VJTF 2023 in high enough numbers with sufficient spare parts), Rheinmetall claims that the Puma S1 will be ready for the German lead of the VJTF in the Baltics. The second batch of Pumas (for which the budget has already been approved) hasn't ordered yet, as the original batch isn't finished.


The Wiesel 1 upgrade contract has been signed with FFG. The upgrade encompasses improved protection incl. add-on armor and mine protection kit, new optics and an optimized drivetrain. The Rh 202 autocannon is kept, as apparently no worthy replacement option has been found. There were rumors of the Mauser BK 27 used by the German airforce and navy being considered, but I've never seen any official source. The anti-tank version with TOW missile launcher will however see an upgrade, as the old missile system will be replaced by MELLS (Spike-LR). Not all Wiesel 1s (only 196 out of more than 300) will be upgraded, these 196 vehicles will be distributed into the following variants: - 15 driving training vehicles, 16 Wiesel 1s in the reconnaissance variant, 110 Wiesel Mk 20 and 55 Wiesel 1 anti-tank missile.




One of the main reasons for not upgrading all Wiesel 1s is the decision to adopt a version of the Boxer with autocannon (known as project "MaKaBo", Maschinenkanone Boxer). As reported by ESuT, after evaluating different existing options for the Boxer, the Bundeswehr has apparently decided that a manned turret is a mandatory requirement, which supposedly leads to Rheinmetall being the winner - at least an official article by the Bundeswehr claimed that the LANCE turret will be fitted. Btw. the weight of a LANCE 1 turret with full armor, missile launcher and 30 mm Mauser MK-30/2 ABM reaches 5,2 tonnes! Each heavy company of the Jäger battalions and the Gebirgsjäger battalion 231 will have twelve Boxers with autocannon (in three platoons of four vehicle) - at the moment there are twelve Wiesel 1s (six with 20 mm Rh 202 and six with TOW launchers) in the heavy companies.

The LuWa program (next-generation air-droppable light weapon carrier; supposed up to twice as heavy as Wiesel 1) will provide a replacement for the rest of the Wiesel 1s by the mid/late-2020s.


Rheinmetall has also developed the Fuchs 1A8 Plus variant in cooperation with the BAAINBw, which features an improved drivetrain and power pack able to keep up better with Boxer. in theory there also could be armor improvements, as IBD Deisenroth (now part of Rheinmetall Protection Systems) has developed a new armor kit for the Fuchs, which has been fully qualified. This armor meets the full STANAG 4569 level 4 ballistic requirements, whereas the original MEXAS armor kit only reached a reduced/loosened protection requirement.


KMW's APVT - the amphibious vehicle based on Puma components with a boat-shaped rear end for reverse swimming - has been called Lurch (amphibian) by KMW recently, so that might become its proper name. One scenario for which KMW advertises the Lurch is river-crossing as part of pioneering (measuring depth of rivers, setting up bridges, etc.). Currently that is done via boat, historically (1970s) the German military had a lot of interest in the APE, but it didn't perform well in tests.


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On 1/25/2020 at 12:15 AM, DIADES said:

Given MTU seems to be pulling out of AFV, I think we will see the phrase "Liebherr, not MTU." a fair bit.


MTU is not pulling out of the military engine market.


On 1/25/2020 at 9:20 AM, Willy Brandt said:

Source for the Fuchs 1A8 Plus? Also any more info on who is interested in the APVT? Seebataillon? The dutch? etc
Do you hear anything about mine laying?


Public sources on Fuchs 1A8 Plus seem to be a bit limited, but a number of press releases/news articles like this this one mention the upgrade:

"The company is also offering an even more advanced version of the vehicle, the 1A8 Plus, which has a new drive unit, a new transfer case, a new brake system and an improved steering system as well as monitoring and camera visualisation systems. This makes the FUCHS/FOX 1A8 Plus even more manoeuvrable in off-road terrain and considerably easier to handle. These measures will make it possible to keep the vehicle in service beyond 2030."


I don't know if there is any actual interest in the APVT Lurch on the side of the German military (there are probably some soldiers liking the concept, but I have no idea about what the higher-ups/decision-makers think about it). KMW seems to want Germany as a launch customer, so other countries might be more open to purchasing it.


I've heard/seen nothing regarding new mine laying capabilities, but that doesn't mean that someone might be working on that.

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7 hours ago, DIADES said:

I see the MTU website as cached in Nov 2019 listing the engines in detail and now, nothing, really nothing..  So you know they are not pulling out how?


Not letting civilians & the competition see the specs of your products without an actual inquiry/request does not equate to "pulling out" of the market for military-grade engines. The fact that the navigation menu of their website contains the menu item "Defense" should make that quite obvious.They just launched their re-designed website before all new content was created, this is why you'll now can access the maritim defense product specs, which weren't available a few days ago. Their website also offers a filter option for "military vehicles", so more content will arrive soon.

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