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StuG III Thread (and also other German vehicles I guess)


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On 1/24/2020 at 9:42 PM, SH_MM said:

The second batch of Pumas (for which the budget has already been approved) hasn't ordered yet, as the original batch isn't finished.


According to Inspector General of the German Army Gen. Eberhard Zorn, the intent is to purchase 229 Puma IFVs as a second batch. That's the first official number.

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That would make 579 Pumas.


579/44 equals roughly 13 with 7 to spare.


So 1 for refernce at one of the Testing Centers and 6 at the Training Center together with the 8 Driver Training Vehicles.


Currently there are 9 Active Bataillons and 2 non Active Bataillons.

So you have 2 Bataillon sets of Pumas worth to spare.....


Other tidbits from the Newsletter mainly Engineering related:

-New System for Minelaying is in the concept phase
-Introduction in 2028
-Ability for Friend/Foe Discrimination
-On/Off Switch

-New Amphibious Bridging System to replace the M3
-MLC 100 and in special cases MLC 130 for exceptional Loads

-600m worth of Vehicles + 160m worth of Vehicles for Training
-Due to cooperation on the M3 with the Brits there is a possibility of cooperation on developing the succesor system

-Introduction 2030

-Replacment of the AEV Dachs
-Either Kodiak from Rheinmetall or Wisent 2 from FFG

-Delivery 2026


Source: http://www.fkhev.de/index.php?id=10&L=1%2F'

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13 hours ago, DIADES said:

In service e somewhere around 2050 at this rate :)


The last of the 1st Batch is getting delivered this year. The production per year was around 90. But with the S1 and S2 updates happening besides the new Batch 2 Productio it could hamper it a bit but with production halved it should still be done in 5 years.

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The German Ministry of Defence (MoD) in December 2019 awarded Flensburger Fahrzeugbau Gesellschaft (FFG) a contract to upgrade 181 deployed Wiesel 1 Armoured Weapon Carrier (AWC) vehicles to extend their operational life to at least 2025. The company declined to disclose the value of the contract and delivery schedule.

In June 2017, following a competition, FFG was awarded a contract to build three prototypes of the upgraded Wiesel 1 AWC; these were completed in 2018 and handed over to the German Army for extensive troop trials.

Benjamin Lindsay, senior manager for sales and project development with FFG's Military Programs Division, told Jane's the company will receive batches of 25 Wiesel 1 AWCs without weapons, which will then be upgraded by FFG and returned to the German Army, which will fit government furnished equipment (GFE) such as radios and weapons.

All three deployed versions of the Wiesel are to be upgraded by the company: one fitted with the E6-II-A1 turret armed with the Rheinmetall 20 mm MK 20 Rh 202 dual-feed cannon, with one becoming an anti-tank version and one becoming a reconnaissance version, according to FFG.

The anti-tank version was originally fitted with a pedestal-mounted Raytheon TOW A1 anti-tank missile (ATM) launcher but this is to be replaced by the Eurospike MELLS ATM that is deployed by the German Army in several applications. MELLS is the German version of Rafael's Spike-LR.


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3 hours ago, Wiedzmin said:

one of german report's says that Kjpz have lower muzzle velocity than tank gun  for AP, but still can't find more detailed info 


This is quite logical, the 90 mm gun was shorter (L/40.4) versus L/52.5 for the M47 and M48.


However, the original requirements stated that the gun tube had to be ballistically on the same high level as that of the 90 mm M41 rifled gun.

Thus, the same 90 mm ammunition as in service with the M47 and M48 MBTs could be fired.

The strength of the metal used for the gun (also called Rheinmetall BK 90 ?) was planned to incorporate the development of future higher performance ammunition.


Only HEAT-T and HESH-T ammunition are mentionned in the specific literature.

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4 hours ago, Wiedzmin said:

one of german report's says that Kjpz have lower muzzle velocity than tank gun  for AP, but still can't find more detailed info 

In the video Nick Moran also says it used primarily HEAT and HEP. 90mm AP was already useless vs T-54.

What I find quite interesting, is that the vehicle is remarkably ergonomic. Except the gunner's place, if he needs to use the gun. T-34 level misery over there... Germans couldnt develop an articulated telescope, like the soviet TSh series? The Kjpz would greatly benefit from that. Also a swiveling seat, like in the WW2 Jagdpanzer IV?

Overall seems like a nice vehicle, probably quite useful in ambushes.

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On 2/23/2020 at 8:36 PM, Sovngard said:
Michael Jerchel names the TEM-1A rangefinder sight and TRP-1A and TRP-2A commander's panoramic sights while Stefan Kotsch also mentions the TRP-5 and the CIA comes with this :
So, who is right ?





The Leopard 1A5 has the TRP-5(A), the older versions used the TRP-1A or TRP-2A (or the PERI R12 in case of the Leopard 1A4). The TEM-1A rangefinder and the TRP-1A commander's sight were used for the initial model (might have only been pre-series vehicles). The TEM-A2 is basically identical to the TEM-A1, but mounted in a shock-proof manner.


No idea what the technical differences between the TRP-1A and TRP-2A are, it might also be a shock-proof mounting or the different ballistic hood cover (there were two versions, with different "lid" sizes). Another explanation for the different designations might be the fact that the TRP-1A had no laser protection filter, but the TRP-2A had one.



Turret production for the Leopard 1 - 1973. Also shows a few shots and details of the - then brand new - welded turret for the Leopard 1A3. It provided the loader with a rotatable and tiltable sight (seems to be similar to the Kanonenjagdpanzers') - but the Leopard 2 has gone back to the fixed optic. Just like the Leopard 1A4's PERI R12 featured passive night vision, but the Leopard 2's PERI R17 was initially limited to day sight use...



BTW: has anybody here have informations regarding the EMES 16? There is a man-portable optical rangefinder with this designation, but EMES 12, EMES 13, EMES 14, EMES 15, EMES 17 and EMES 18 all were gunner's sights with integrated rangefinder for main battle tanks, so I wonder if there is also a EMES 16 for a tank.

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One of the Kampfpanzer 3 proposals, this one is from Maschninenbau Kiel. IMO it was the best one:




Three men crew, autoloaded gun in overhead installation (this concept was tested on the VTS1 testbed based on the Marder hull), frontal protection against 120 mm KE (DM13 prototype at the time) and 120 mm HEAT-FS rounds along a 60° arc.




Like on the VTS1, the gun cannot be rotated by 360°, instead traverse is limited to 120° (-60° to +60° from the hull centerline). This was seen as sufficient by the West-German military, as this allowed a single tank to cover an area of 3,640 meters in 1,000 meters distance.




As Burlington-type composite armor wasn't adopted at the time, the all three KPz 3 proposals relied on spaced armor.




There were different exact configurations of the proposed vehicle with different crew and engine arrangements. But AFAIK all were designed with the same protectiion level and main gun (120 mm smoothbore gun prototype from Rheinmetall).



Source: Object-477's weibo blog.


The VTS1 ("Versuchsträger Scheitellafette 1" - testbed overhead gun mount 1):




At the same time Sweden created a similar prototype based on a Marder leased from Germany as part of the UDES-19 project.








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