In Which Britain Tells Europe to "Stuff It"; Also David Cameron Takes His Football and Goes Home

[Bronezhilet]

How pro-leave are you actually, Toxn?

[Toxn]

How pro-leave are you actually, Toxn?

I actually don't give much of a hoot - I'm on the other side of the world firmly believe that life will go on, economy-wise.

 

What I object to is this idea that democracy is a sort of contingent thing that only counts when you agree with the results. Because 1. it betrays a serious lack of understanding in terms of how the institution is supposed to work and continue to work; 2. it is the classic back door by which autocracy sneaks into the system (after which you can say goodbye to things like freedom of speech and freedom of association); and 3. the EU is in many ways a toxic mess beyond hope of reform, and has amply demonstrated it over the last few years in almost every sphere of governance I deem important. So I am less than amused when edgy kids around the world suddenly develop a boner for the most dysfunctional, special-interest-captured and bureaucratic institition on the world stage right now simply because some of the people wanting to leave it are shits.

 

For the record, I'm also completely pro Scotland and Ireland getting out of the UK if they want.

[Bronezhilet]

I actually don't give much of a hoot - I'm on the other side of the world firmly believe that life will go on, economy-wise.

 

What I object to is this idea that democracy is a sort of contingent thing that only counts when you agree with the results. Because 1. it betrays a serious lack of understanding in terms of how the institution is supposed to work and continue to work; 2. it is the classic back door by which autocracy sneaks into the system (after which you can say goodbye to things like freedom of speech and freedom of association); and 3. the EU is in many ways a toxic mess beyond hope of reform, and has amply demonstrated it over the last few years in almost every sphere of governance I deem important. So I am less than amused when edgy kids around the world suddenly develop a boner for the most dysfunctional, special-interest-captured and bureaucratic institition on the world stage right now simply because some of the people wanting to leave it are shits.

 

For the record, I'm also completely pro Scotland and Ireland getting out of the UK if they want.

I actually realised I worded the question too biased, but editing a post is a little difficult while taking a shower.

 

Also, while I agree with point 1 and 2, I disagree with point 3. While I'm probably too uninformed to make a proper assessment I'm going to say what I think anyway.

From what I've been told a lot of the bureaucratic shizzle comes from the UK due to their special snowflake status. They pay a lot less % of their GDP than other main EU states, they were allowed to have their border control, etc. Apparently they also stalled a lot of the EU decision making because they wanted their own special snowflake status with those decisions as well.

 

I absolutely disagree with saying the EU is the most dysfunctional institution in the world. Article A of the Treaty of Maastricht says that the EU is the successor of the EC, which was established in 1958. Close to 60 years ago. Kinda long for a dysfunctional institution this big to exist.

 

 

The problem with Scotland and Ireland getting out of the UK is that they can't. Yet. There's still ~3.5 years to go before they can start another referendum.

[Toxn]

I actually realised I worded the question too biased, but editing a post is a little difficult while taking a shower.

 

It's okay, I'm actually happy to waffle on about things that only affect me tangentially regardless of shower-edits  

 

Also, while I agree with point 1 and 2, I disagree with point 3. While I'm probably too uninformed to make a proper assessment I'm going to say what I think anyway.

From what I've been told a lot of the bureaucratic shizzle comes from the UK due to their special snowflake status. They pay a lot less % of their GDP than other main EU states, they were allowed to have their border control, etc. Apparently they also stalled a lot of the EU decision making because they wanted their own special snowflake status with those decisions as well.

 

I absolutely disagree with saying the EU is the most dysfunctional institution in the world. Article A of the Treaty of Maastricht says that the EU is the successor of the EC, which was established in 1958. Close to 60 years ago. Kinda long for a dysfunctional institution this big to exist.

 

This discounts the fact that the EU has been actively evolving into a bureaucratic nightmare and didn't start there. It also ignores the fact that dysfunctional shit can roll on for a long-ass time so long as nothing external comes around to knock it over. And oh look, the worst financial crisis since the 1930s happened in 2008 and now all the cards are falling over.

 

The problem with Scotland and Ireland getting out of the UK is that they can't. Yet. There's still ~3.5 years to go before they can start another referendum.

 

Yeah, poor buggers. I'm actually wondering how the EU will react to this given that they have a conflicting interest in giving the UK the boot (medium style) versus making sure that all the would-be independent states inside their member nations don't get any funny ideas.

[EnsignExpendable]

I actually don't give much of a hoot - I'm on the other side of the world firmly believe that life will go on, economy-wise.

 

What I object to is this idea that democracy is a sort of contingent thing that only counts when you agree with the results. Because 1. it betrays a serious lack of understanding in terms of how the institution is supposed to work and continue to work; 2. it is the classic back door by which autocracy sneaks into the system (after which you can say goodbye to things like freedom of speech and freedom of association); and 3. the EU is in many ways a toxic mess beyond hope of reform, and has amply demonstrated it over the last few years in almost every sphere of governance I deem important. So I am less than amused when edgy kids around the world suddenly develop a boner for the most dysfunctional, special-interest-captured and bureaucratic institition on the world stage right now simply because some of the people wanting to leave it are shits.

 

For the record, I'm also completely pro Scotland and Ireland getting out of the UK if they want.

 

They already vetoed Boaty McBoatface, so you can tell they're not really all that devoted to democracy.

[Toxn]

They already vetoed Boaty McBoatface, so you can tell they're not really all that devoted to democracy.

This might, in retrospect, have been a sign of things to come.

I'm now hearing open talk from pundits about how the referendum was non-binding and the low-intelligence voters might be amenable to a second vote (framed in the form of a snap election) now that they've had a few days of financial shock therapy to focus their minds.

[Bronezhilet]

For fucks sake, if you think half of your population is retarded, maybe you're doing something wrong.

 

Here's a hint: Maybe send that 350 million pound a week to the education system or something.

[Bronezhilet]

Bye bye Farage

[SuperComrade]

Lol, looks like noone wants to initiate Brexit, since BoJo won't do it, and neither will Cameron

[EnsignExpendable]

I'll do it, make me PM

[Priory_of_Sion]

I hear that Andrea Leadsom is likely to be PM, I have no clue if that's good or not.

[Bronezhilet]

[Toxn]

This might, in retrospect, have been a sign of things to come.

I'm now hearing open talk from pundits about how the referendum was non-binding and the low-intelligence voters might be amenable to a second vote (framed in the form of a snap election) now that they've had a few days of financial shock therapy to focus their minds.

So it didn't come to pass in that way, but guess what:

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/11/brexit-high-court/506384/

 

Translation: If the supreme court upholds the verdict parliment will annul the results, blame the Tories and then carry on as if nothing has happened. In the meantime, another heaping helpful of status quo ante.

[Sturgeon]

So it didn't come to pass in that way, but guess what:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/11/brexit-high-court/506384/

Translation: If the supreme court upholds the verdict parliment will annul the results, blame the Tories and then carry on as if nothing has happened. In the meantime, another heaping helpful of status quo ante.

You didn't think they'd actually let the peasants have a say, did you?

[ShamefurDispray]

So it didn't come to pass in that way, but guess what:

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/11/brexit-high-court/506384/

 

Translation: If the supreme court upholds the verdict parliment will annul the results, blame the Tories and then carry on as if nothing has happened. In the meantime, another heaping helpful of status quo ante.

Sure they can annul the results, but it's political suicide for both the Tories and Labour, is it not?

[Toxn]

Sure they can annul the results, but it's political suicide for both the Tories and Labour, is it not?

Just the Tories, I think.