The Small Arms Thread, Part 8: 2018; ICSR to be replaced by US Army with interim 15mm Revolver Cannon.

[LoooSeR]

[Tied]

for sturgeon

[Alex C.]

[Sturgeon]

That's an awfully good fotershap.

[Alex C.]

Yep.

[Tied]

 

based eric

[Sturgeon]

For those of you who shoot .303 Brit, here's some cheap ammo: http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=AW303FMJ174&utm_source=AIM+Surplus+Main+List&utm_campaign=6abdbb5db8-12162015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6870497a6a-6abdbb5db8-18834469

[Sturgeon]

 

based eric

 

"based" Eric couldn't control an experiment to save his life.

 

Also, "lol I am going to shoot a gun to failure, while wearing a facemask that covers everything but my eyes. I am so smart."

[Sturgeon]

 

[Brick Fight]

"based" Eric couldn't control an experiment to save his life.

 

Also, "lol I am going to shoot a gun to failure, while wearing a facemask that covers everything but my eyes. I am so smart."

 

"Hang on hang on" he says as he gives little to no time for his friend to pull his hand away.

[Tied]

"based" Eric couldn't control an experiment to save his life.

Also, "lol I am going to shoot a gun to failure, while wearing a facemask that covers everything but my eyes. I am so smart."

Hey atleast he bothered to remove his fancy optic for a test invovling shooting from the hip

[Meplat]

I've fired a few guns to "destruction", for work..

 

It was heartbreaking. 

About as enjoyable as kicking puppies and stomping kittens. 

[Tied]

I've fired a few guns to "destruction", for work..

 

It was heartbreaking. 

About as enjoyable as kicking puppies and stomping kittens. 

 

you could of uploaded it to youtube for out of context arguments and internet points 

[Meplat]

you could of uploaded it to youtube for out of context arguments and internet points 

If there is vid of it, it's in Hi 8mm. And I'd rather not deal with the bullshit associated with melting a perfectly good PKM tube.

[Collimatrix]

 

 

 

This is what you get when a piston thrusts and thrusts and thrusts.  The scene got very hot and there was a continuous sound of loud banging.

And that bolt carrier tower got completely face-fucked.

[Sturgeon]

Mech and I both agree that SCHV is the way of the future for handguns. Not so long from now, handguns will be firing little fragmenting projectiles at speeds above 600 m/s, from sabot accelerators and wide bores.

We both agree that higher pressures are necessary to really exploit these mechanics, and likely a longer case with new dimensions. However, thanks to sabot technology, bore diameters will be relatively unchanged versus what they are now.

Lots of barrels are made in 9mm, so that seems like a logical choice. But it needs a new name. We should name it after the person who originally invented it, but with a new, hotter spin - just like the high velocity sabots.

We'll call it...

The 9mm HITLER MAGNUM.

[Meplat]

This is what you get when a piston thrusts and thrusts and thrusts.  The scene got very hot and there was a continuous sound of loud banging.

And that bolt carrier tower got completely face-fucked.

And I'd be hitting the flask of bourbon.

[Vanagandr]

On the topic of AR-15 families failing, I hope I'm not the fifteenth person to post this

 

welp

[Khand-e]

just link directly to youtube

[Meplat]

On the topic of AR-15 families failing, I hope I'm not the fifteenth person to post this

 

welp

So, another fucktard thinking they are smarter than Gene Stoner, Mel Johnson and the rest of the folks at Armalite?

Okay then.

[Sturgeon]

One of my favorite CarniK-Con videos:

 

[Tied]

So, another fucktard thinking they are smarter than Gene Stoner, Mel Johnson and the rest of the folks at Armalite?

Okay then.

 

no, this one is pretty accurate and well researched 

[Tied]

 

IV8888 wearing a east german helmet trumps anything i have ever or will ever write on this website for purposes of comedy 

[Khand-e]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/03/08/10-gun-buying-tips-new-shooter/

 

So, what are SH's tips for a first time buyer?  Anyone have a different take than Nathaniel?

 

I'd probably buy either a shotgun (870 or Mossy) as my first purchase up here in Canuckistan..  Reasonable effective for home defense,(if that's an issue),  stupid simple to operate, and usable for hunting most stuff I'd want to hunt with different loads and barrels.  After that, I'd prolly get some sort of .22 rifle for a pure plinking toy, then a centerfire rifle of some sort, and then some sort of 9mm pistol to round it out.

 

I'll give a different perspective, at least on first time buying a handgun.

 

First off, know your budget, most important thing.

 

Second, this will probably be a part many here disagree with, you're free to do so as I feel either approach is fine, but, while I genuinely do feel striker fired, no manual safety designs are the future of handgun design going forward, you should probably buy something with with hammer and a safety if it's your very first gun, preferably one with a decocker aswell, but that's not strictly needed. You should be able to transition to a striker fired design easier this way, if not, just be more careful.

 

Actually hold the design and preferably test fire it (If you can) before you actually decide on it, even slight annoyances such as the grip and distance from hand to trigger or magazine release can be irritating in the long run, see how you like the sights, odds are you'll be replacing these anyway, but do it. (see below), I have fucking gorilla hands so most larger handguns don't really phase me, also, if you get an option to try a gun with adjustable backstraps (pretty much all modern designs will have this option standard unless they're a bunch of cheap fucks)

 

Get a caliber you're comfortable with, when actually carrying a gun, I use a .40 S&W, but to be far, I'm a rather experienced shooter and used a wide range of calibers, most people will tell you 9mm, this isn't a bad decision, 9x19mm Luger (now known as HITLER MAGNUM) is cheap, readily on hand basically anywhere, has a multitude of different manufacturers and design types, pretty modest recoil, and is generally only beaten out by more specialized things like 5.7x28mm in capacity without using magazines that have an extended baseplate or overall length. .40 S&W is probably 2nd or 3rd most common caliber in semi automatics these days. I would have to compare to the .45 ACP to be certain on which, but either way, .40 S&W is better for newer shooters as it does recoil less from experience. (keep in mind one rule, assuming you take 2 rounds of roughly equal design and guns of roughly equal weight and design with the same energy, and fire one slower, heavier bullet compared to one faster, lighter bullet, the slower, heavier one will generate more *felt* recoil, important to remember that, this is why 5.7x28mm has much less recoil then 9x19mm despite the FiveSeven itself and the ammunition/magazines being very light despite 5.7x28mm being roughly on par with non overpressured 9x19mm in muzzle energy.)

 

Now then, based on the above? what would I recommend and what wouldn't I? I guess I'd do this.

 

CZ - generally very well made handguns for their price, the most well known being the CZ-75, If you can find one for a good price they're a steal of a deal, good ergonomics, 16 round magazine capacity, lots of aftermarket accessories, good SA/DA action, and CZ handguns often come with your choice of either a safety or a decocker, CZs later iterations of the design are also quite good, and offer either 19 rounds in their 9x19mm version or 15 in their .40 S&W version. they also feature a polymer lower unlike the all metal 75.

 

Beretta - As long as you know what you're looking for, Beretta is also a good choice, the 92FS/M9A1 (basically slightly modified to military specifications, not TOO different) offers 15 rounds of 9x19mm or 12 of .40 S&W in a design that's comfortable to hold and operate to most shooters, The Px4 is also pretty good with more caliber choices and higher capacities (17/14/10 for 9/40/45) while featuring more polymer used in the frame and a shorter barrel length if you ever want to conceal it. one good thing about Beretta designs listed above is that some versions feature a combination safety/decocker which is nice, not needed but it's nice. Just avoid the M9A3 "OHHH, LOOK AT US, WE WON A US MILITARY CONTRACT DECADES AGO AND WERE JUST NOW GOING TO TRY AND CASH IN ON THAT NOW THAT WE MAY BE GETTING REPLACED SOON." design as, while it does feature some pretty nifty design improvements over the regular M9A1, It's easily double the price. I guess it's worth pointing out Beretta's stock sights are some of the few that don't annoy me.

 

FN - The FNX series (not to be confused with their sister line, the FNS which are striker fired) are very, very well made and, shockingly, from a company like FN, reasonably priced. They're very comfortable to hold to me with very good controls, feature 17 round magazines in 9mm, 14 in .40 S&W and 14-15 in .45 ACP (the grips in the .45 version are wide as fuck if you're wondering how they managed this), however, avoid the FNX-45 tactical version, It's far more expensive as it has many features a first time buyer wont need, notably high rise sights and a threaded barrel, the reason for this is because it's designed to be used with a silencer out of the box, and a good quality silencer with the tax stamp (something you really don't want to do as a first time buyer) can often run just as much as the entire gun.

 

Things to avoid

 

SIG Sauer - Anyone who knows me knows that either SIG or H&K was going to be first on the list, but really, while H&K annoys me in general, SIGs handgun fanbase alone is about the most annoying shit you will ever deal with, as for whats wrong them them aside from retarded fanboys? well, the fact they're basically massively overpriced (they have like infinity variants of the P220 series under different names sometimes, all can go well in excess of 1,000 dollars.), they feel clunky, have awful triggers, and despite the fact they're taller then your average skyscaper (bore axis is another thing you need to look into), they actually have one round less capacity then the handguns they wish they could be, which is the CZ-75B. unless someone throws a P210 on your lap for about half of what it's worth or a P320 if you ever get a striker fired design, don't buy a SIG Sauer.

 

1911A1s in general - I don't actually hate 1911A1s by any means, and they normally would be ideal for a first time user as they're excellent range guns, but, the problem is they're such a mixed bag, alot of the lower end brands are dishonest as fuck and, despite their "made in the USA!" tagline, usually import inferior guns from Brazil or the Philippines, there are some well made ones around, but they're either high dollar, or real enthusiast/race guns. (I suppose saying race gun and high dollar is a bit redundant though), they're also kind of large compared to a few modern offerings, and some will complain that a bog standard 1911A1 only comes with 7-8 rounds in a standard magazine unless you get a double stack design (see: high dollar) which is a bit low these days. If you can get a good deal on a brand you know doesn't do shady shit, by all means go for it, but do some research beforehand when ever getting a 1911A1.

 

FN Part 2. Don't buy a FiveSeven, the Mk2 is a good design, however I'll explain this below.

 

Browning/FN - The Browning Hi Power, as much as I want to say otherwise, isn't really a good pistol for a first time buyer, It's a good design that's reliable, easy to mantain, and has decent ergonomics, but it's problemed because of it's age and few other things, first off, they're still quite expensive for a newly made example, secondly, they require some modifications to keep them on par. The first is a trick that's rather easy for someone who's ever disassembled a handgun, but a new time buyer, just do basic maintenance. Anyway, the Hi Power is rather notorious for having a heavy trigger pull, this is because it uses a rather dated magazine safety disconnect, most people will remove this and it will run much cleaner after that, the second are that the sights are pretty bad even by standard sights bad, so you want to change those out as soon as you can, lastly, it has a relatively low (compared to modern high capacity full size designs) capacity of 13 rounds in 9mm, this can be remedied somewhat by using Mecgar's aftermarket magazines that have a hollow base which can extend that to 15 without extending past the length of the magazine well. I'm not aware if Mecgar makes higher capacity magazines for the less common .40 S&W variants, so they're stuck at 10 until shown otherwise. Either way, they're generally too much of an investment for a first time buyer.

 

H&K - Anything I write about H&K will probably trigger Alex C. so... I'll just say, all their handguns designed after the P9 and P7 are pretty overrated and alot more expensive then their competitors, among other things I could say.

 

Hi-Point - Large, heavy, ergonomics of a brick, annoying triggers, low capacity. get something else.

 

Keltec - Just a world of terrible ideas waiting for you if you take this path.

 

Taurus - Cancer, only buy if you hate yourself with a burning passion.

 

As for the FiveSeven Mk2, I actually do think it's a great gun, my wife owns one, but it's not a first timer gun, aside from a few minor issues, 1. It is far out of the price range of must first time buyers, and 2. the muzzle blast and sound will ruin your shit if you've never fired a handgun before, It's chambered for a high pressure round forcing alot of powder down a relatively short barrel, that shit WILL catch you off guard your first time using one, don't let it's small size deceive you.

 

I probably forgot some, but I'm mostly focusing on guns that 1. aren't striker fired (I'll do one for that later) and 2. are still in production. If I could do a used list it would be far longer.

 

I'm going to edit this post (or make a part 2) to go on modifying for first timers, but for now, I'm bored of typing.

[Tied]

I think hipowers are a good enough choice for a first time buy. Im always married to lady Makorov. All stereotypes aside i wouldnt mind being burried with mine. The thing is fucking indestructible and joy to shoot

Sigs and 1911s in general are cancer. Espically for first time users

Finding a good deal on a Sig first time around is the equivalent of beijg attacked by a shark, overpowering it, and fucking it. Its not gonna happen

And there is no reason anyone should own a 1911 for first time buy. Espically for self defense purposes. You might as well buy a normal pistol and carry it around in its case for the experience of trying to conceal carry a 1911.