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Sturgeon's House

The Small Arms Thread, Part 8: 2018; ICSR to be replaced by US Army with interim 15mm Revolver Cannon.


Khand-e
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The line about semiautos not handling neglect well I think is horseshit. A modern semiauto with corrosion-resistant coatings that is well-lubed handles neglect great. I know, because I've neglected pretty much every single one I've owned. 

The biggest thing that could stop a semiauto in these circumstances is actually the ammunition. Primers have a low but still significant chance of not working after a few years of neglect, and so I try to make sure that I either cycle my duty ammo or choose ammunition with sealed primers (such as Remington Golden Sabers - you can also seal primers yourself with primer sealant you can buy for about ten bucks).

And why wouldn't a revolver - made more more corrosion-prone blued and stainless steels - not have issues if it got heavily dirty or rusted, either? Or if the primers went bad?

The short of it is that I've seen literally no evidence to suggest that revolvers handle neglect better than semiautos do. 

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The line about semiautos not handling neglect well I think is horseshit. A modern semiauto with corrosion-resistant coatings that is well-lubed handles neglect great. I know, because I've neglected pretty much every single one I've owned. 

The biggest thing that could stop a semiauto in these circumstances is actually the ammunition. Primers have a low but still significant chance of not working after a few years of neglect, and so I try to make sure that I either cycle my duty ammo or choose ammunition with sealed primers (such as Remington Golden Sabers - you can also seal primers yourself with primer sealant you can buy for about ten bucks).

And why wouldn't a revolver - made more more corrosion-prone blued and stainless steels - not have issues if it got heavily dirty or rusted, either? Or if the primers went bad?

The short of it is that I've seen literally no evidence to suggest that revolvers handle neglect better than semiautos do. 

 

"Primer sealant"?

 

Just buy fingernail polish.  It's often cheap as a buck or two.

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"I have the LWRC M6-IC I shoot suppressed with my SAKER.

I have fired over 1k rounds and never cleaned it. When I take it apart and hold the bold it is a small amount of carbon on it, a quick wipe down with my shirt would take care of it, but I don’t even do that.

I don’t needs parts for my AR because I will shoot out the firing-pin or barrel before anything else fails. In a survival situation when your looking for gun cleaning essentials (that run our faster then my parts ever will) to keep your DI running. Mine will still work.

The LWRC IC series will shoot under water, injected with sand and mud, and covered in rust. They even blew one up and it still fired after they made a 3 sec fix where they bent the barrel … straight ish again.

I can also fire 600+++ rounds as fast as I can, pull out the bolt and it will be cool to the touch. This means I don’t heat up the brass and cause it to over expand in the chamber when fired and semi weld it self to the barrel. What is a much to common and catastrophic failure DI guns have Piston do not. I have had this happen to me with a DI gun, and a bud of mine had this happen to him while under attack in a river-bed in Iraq, almost cost him his life.

Last argument, there is a reason why ALL Special Forces use Piston Guns, like the SCAR and the SEAL custom made H&k."

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In my experience primer sealant is basically the same price as waterproof nail polish. I don't know if they're different, but it probably doesn't matter much.

Hit up the non-chain buck stores, or closeout places.

 

Also the old model airplane dope is the same stuff.

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On the topic of Golden Sabers, one odd thing I do actually really like about the design aside from the sealed primers is that they use both a nickel plated case (saves me a bit of sore thumbs when loading magazines) and a brass jacket instead of a mostly solid copper one, which in theory will penetrate better if they alloy is right (the unbonded ones are known for jacket separation issues, but the bonded ones fix that problem so I don't get why people who consider that a massive issue don't just buy the bonded variants), also the angled cut stress marks in the jacket as opposed to straight cut. (I can explain why I think this is a good idea, but I can understand why people may think it's a trivial thing that doesn't make that much of a difference.)

 

They're also fucking cheap as balls.

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So for those who may not have seen very many projectile types (Aka, people who aren't Meplat, D.E. Watters, Collimatrix, Sturgeon, Alex C. Ulric, etc), what I'm talking about regarding angled jacket cuts in the Remington Golden Saber is this, it also shows that Remington in general seems to have a thing for brass jackets.

 

j0XJTUE.jpg

 

Left to right, Winchester 180 gr FMJ target .40 S&W, typical brass case copper jacket, nothing special it's just range ammo mostly, SIG Sauer Elite Performance 165 gr JHP, .40 S&W, Remington Golden Saber 165 gr JHP, Remington UMC 180 gr FMJ target load 10mm Auto (note that it also has a nickel plated case and a brass jacket), and an Underwood custom load with Starline brass and a Hornady XTP 155 gr JHP in 10mm, also have some basically identical loadings from Buffalo Bore with a 180 gr XTP instead (I had to use some 10mm Auto casings for this since I didn't have any UMC or XTP rounds in .40 S&W on hand.)

 

spPESkH.jpg

 

Elite Performance and Golden Saber side by side, note the previously mentioned deep cuts that go laterally on the Golden Saber, and how shallow the cuts are on the elite performance (you can really only see them from the top.)

 

G3Au9sQ.jpg

 

And compared to an XTP, note that unlike the Elite Performance, the stress cuts go very deep and quite a ways down the jacket.

 

We really need a top side view of things to show how they're different though.

 

GzWhRtz.jpg

 

 

Both the Elite Performance and Golden Sabers have very wide cavities, this is pretty typical of rounds designed specifically for defensive use as people are rather thin skinned and you can get them to expand to a large size easier when hitting something soft, note that the Elite Performance has a second hollow cavity in the center, my theory is Xzibit helped design the round because he heard SIG Sauer liked hollow points so he added another hollow cavity so you can expand while you expand. Modern JHPs can get away with wide cavities versus human targets even with things like thick clothing and still penetrate deep enough to do their job, the XTP is obviously different, the cavity is very narrow and, while it's hard to see, not as deep as the other 2, this is because the XTP is more of a multi purpose round, and controlled expansion is really the name of the game here where in addition to working well against human attackers, It's also designed to work well against medium-thick skinned game targets (they offer them in various calibers and weights, some for rifles) where you really need to penetrate very deeply as many animals have much thicker skin and tougher/denser bone structures then people do, they also need to go through more flesh aswell, so controlling the expansion all the way through the target so it doesn't stop early is very important. I'd also like to point out that, for pistol JHPs, Hornady XTPs tend to also be exceptionally accurate in my experience. (HORNADY, SPONSOR ME PLEASE, I'LL WHORE MYSELF OUT MORE THEN ALL OF TFB!)

 

And some, "just for the fuck of it photos", here you go.

 

2 .40 S&W and 1 10mm Auto that was donated from one of the magazines from the Glock 40 pictured and a Size 12 Custom Air Jordan for scale (poorly to scale at least). (If you're wondering why the baseplate is on the floor, It's because I'm not risking damaging a $700 optic for a dumb photoshoot I'm doing for something I'm getting no real gain from, this fucking post would've been up 30 minutes sooner if I didn't have to remove that goddamn cocksucking plate everytime, plus it doesn't fit in my bedside holster with the sight on, need to get a new one.)

 

IDJ9P7C.jpg

 

 

And, since people sperg alot about comparisons to rounds next to the .50 BMG, 1 .40 S&W and 1 10mm Auto next to an M8 API .50 BMG and an Inert 20mm casing from WW2 that someone turned into an ashtray, the bullet is a perfect replica, but when you pull it out it's actually an old fashioned lighter that uses a thick as fuck wick. (I've never unscrewed it from the ash tray to check the headstamp to see exactly what 20mm caliber it is, as this is something that belonged to my long dead great grandfather that I actually treasure alot, but judging from the OAL and the case width, I'm 99% sure it's a 20x110mm Hispanio.)

 

EZZ6yDy.jpg

 

Welp, that was a waste of time probably, but, things we learned.

 

1. Remington is really into Nickel casings, even for range ammunition, which is really nice actually with brass jackets, and

 

2. JHPs are quite different from each other, actually look into what you're buying and what it's intended for because they're not just a class of projectile you can throw a blanket around.

 

I hope you enjoyed my shitpost.

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So for those who may not have seen very many projectile types (Aka, people who aren't Meplat, D.E. Watters, Collimatrix, Sturgeon, Alex C. Ulric, etc), what I'm talking about regarding angled jacket cuts in the Remington Golden Saber is this, it also shows that Remington in general seems to have a thing for brass jackets.

 

j0XJTUE.jpg

 

Left to right, Winchester 180 gr FMJ target .40 S&W, typical brass case copper jacket, nothing special it's just range ammo mostly, SIG Sauer Elite Performance 165 gr JHP, .40 S&W, Remington Golden Saber 165 gr JHP, Remington UMC FMJ target load 10mm Auto (note that it also has a nickel plated case and a brass jacket), and an Underwood custom load with Starline brass and a Hornady XTP 155 gr JHP in 10mm, also have some basically identical loadings from Buffalo Bore with a 180 gr XTP instead (I had to use some 10mm Auto casings for this since I didn't have any UMC or XTP rounds in .40 S&W on hand.)

 

spPESkH.jpg

 

Elite Performance and Golden Saber side by side, note the previously mentioned deep cuts that go laterally on the Golden Saber, and how shallow the cuts are on the elite performance (you can really only see them from the top.)

 

G3Au9sQ.jpg

 

And compared to an XTP, note that unlike the Elite Performance, the stress cuts go very deep and quite a ways down the jacket.

 

We really need a top side view of things to show how they're different though.

 

GzWhRtz.jpg

 

 

Both the Elite Performance and Golden Sabers have very wide cavities, this is pretty typical of rounds designed specifically for defensive use as people are rather thin skinned and you can get them to expand to a large size easier when hitting something soft, note that the Elite Performance has a second hollow cavity in the center, my theory is Xzibit helped design the round because he heard SIG Sauer liked hollow points so he added another hollow cavity so you can expand while you expand. Modern JHPs can get away with wide cavities versus human targets even with things like thick clothing and still penetrate deep enough to do their job, the XTP is obviously different, the cavity is very narrow and, while it's hard to see, not as deep as the other 2, this is because the XTP is more of a multi purpose round, and controlled expansion is really the name of the game here where in addition to working well against human attackers, It's also designed to work well against medium-thick skinned game targets (they offer them in various calibers and weights, some for rifles) where you really need to penetrate very deeply as many animals have much thicker skin and tougher/denser bone structures then people do, they also need to go through more flesh aswell, so controlling the expansion all the way through the target so it doesn't stop early is very important. I'd also like to point out that, for pistol JHPs, Hornady XTPs tend to also be exceptionally accurate in my experience. (HORNADY, SPONSOR ME PLEASE, I'LL WHORE MYSELF OUT MORE THEN ALL OF TFB!)

 

And some, "just for the fuck of it photos", here you go.

 

2 .40 S&W and 1 10mm Auto that was donated from one of the magazines from the Glock 40 pictured and a Size 12 Custom Air Jordan for scale (poorly to scale at least). (If you're wondering why the baseplate is on the floor, It's because I'm not risking damaging a $700 optic for a dumb photoshoot I'm doing for something I'm getting no real gain from, this fucking post would've been up 30 minutes sooner if I didn't have to remove that goddamn cocksucking plate everytime, plus it doesn't fit in my bedside holster with the sight on, need to get a new one.)

 

IDJ9P7C.jpg

 

 

And, since people sperg alot about comparisons to rounds next to the .50 BMG, 1 .40 S&W and 1 10mm Auto next to an M8 API .50 BMG and an Inert 20mm casing from WW2 that someone turned into an ashtray, the bullet is a perfect replica, but when you pull it out it's actually an old fashioned lighter that uses a thick as fuck wick. (I've never unscrewed it from the ash tray to check the headstamp to see exactly what 20mm caliber it is, as this is something that belonged to my long dead great grandfather that I actually treasure alot, but judging from the OAL and the case width, I'm 99% sure it's a 20x110mm Hispanio.)

 

EZZ6yDy.jpg

 

Welp, that was a waste of time probably, but, things we learned.

 

1. Remington is really into Nickel casings, even for range ammunition, which is really nice actually with brass jackets, and

 

2. JHPs are quite different from each other, actually look into what you're buying and what it's intended for because they're not just a class of projectile you can throw a blanket around.

 

I hope you enjoyed my shitpost.

 

 

Those are big ass shoes! Do they fit?

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