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The Small Arms Thread, Part 8: 2018; ICSR to be replaced by US Army with interim 15mm Revolver Cannon.


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18 hours ago, Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect said:

I have always loved the look of those guns. Sadly, I also realize that they aren't that good. 

 

Agreed.  They look fantastic.  Very streamlined, racecar looking guns.

I don't know much about the development.  I am curious where they got the idea for the action design.

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Let's all take a trip back to the late 1970s and early 1980s.  This was the time of punk.  This was the time of despair.   Punk was all about minimalism; strip everything down to a few chords, wear

So what, my 5.56 rounds are groundbreaking too if I shoot the dirt.

Stechkin's Abakan (TKB-0146). https://www.kalashnikov.ru/abakan-stechkina-avtomat-stechkina-tkb-0146/        Bullpup, system of "recoil impulse shifted in time", 2-stage

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#Rosgvardiya Urals District sniping drill held on 14.2.18:
#OMON with a #Canada/ian CDX-30 GUARDIAN 20″ #sniper rifle. 
Note a very interesting selection of rifles at their disposal,from L to R: Desert Tech SRS,multi calibre AI AXMC,H&K MR308 A3 20",M107A1

DWHAbBXXkAEHdMX.jpg

 

DWHHL3xXUAEnXnC.jpg

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10 minutes ago, Toimisto said:

How stupid is this idea: Replace 12.7mm HMG with 20mm autocannon firing ammunition like the 20mm SHVAK, giving better lethality against infantry with HE and firing Sabot against AFV´s.

 

 

The US Army is replacing most of their vehicle-mounted M2s with 30mm autocannons, so not that stupid evidently.

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https://vk.com/wall-160278262_235?w=wall-160278262_235

about AEKs, AFAIK this comrade tested both A545, A762 and AK-12 as well

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Let's talk about the Avtamat from Kovrov?

   Briefly, because this topic is tiring. Something can be called not objective, something could have changed since 2016, however:
- titanium details in the trigger group to pass in the requirements by weight
- buttstock, it is suitable for PDW, but not for a army avtomat. Who fired a lot from AKMS or SR-2? That's the same!
- thick handguard
- to cock weapon you need to apply a horse-level of force
- BARS does not work in 7.62
- BARS does not give a tangible advantage at medium and long range in automatic mode
- BARS is needed for fast and accurate follow up shot ["double tap"] in single fire mode. And is that a general army assault rifle?

   If I could lay out the sheets with the number of holes in the targets at different distances, done in different shooting modes from different positions from tested machines + from usual AK74M / AKM, and even fix it all with an approximate price for one discussed product, the figures would said everything by themselfs.

V62Umbbt5LE.jpg

 

aX4d8jVfSpo.jpg

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Also from that guy - "The worst ammo"

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   Domestic catridges are often scold, sometimes deservedly. Stumbled on 9х19 without edges, and on 5,45 with two edges 😨, not speaking about such trifles as different amount of propelant in each catridge, not very good quality of surface, etc.

   But a couple of years ago on a business trip I had the pleasure of using 7.62x39 cartridges, which firmly occupied the first place in my personal top. Their origin was not established reliably, there are suspicions of China production or the countries of the Middle East.

   Rare package of cartridges was without a catridle with previously not seen problem. The most common phenomena -  different depths of the bullet insertion in case and the cracked / broken off dulce. Disgusting capsules, crumbling or falling out entirely inside the box.  An incomprehensible green mold on bullets, a sticky black substance on liners, gaily sticking to the walls of the chamber ... terrible!

   But the funny thing is that in 99.9% of cases (a couple of times the firing pin did not physically reach for the capsule) the 103, all these charms were "absolutely up to the drum" [did not affected/didn't cared]. More than 30K of these wonderful cartridges, burnt on several automatic rifles, further convinced me that it is possible to forgive a lot to Kalash.

6fbk3xeMHcY.jpg

 

caBH79_6Fmg.jpg

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20 hours ago, Toimisto said:

How stupid is this idea: Replace 12.7mm HMG with 20mm autocannon firing ammunition like the 20mm SHVAK, giving better lethality against infantry with HE and firing Sabot against AFV´s.

 

 

Anyway, I was just thinking of this the other day, and (I'm sure people will jump on me for my supposed bias against anything German), one cannon I really do like as a potential "in between" candidate is the Rheinmetall Rh 202 chambered in 20x139mm.

 

I think it might have some issues with windowed or lighter vehicles however as it's rather beefy for a 20mm caliber round and I'm not exactly sure of the recoil impulse it has.

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1 hour ago, EnsignExpendable said:

Ulanov posted a document regarding Soviet experimental 5.6 mm rounds in 1941. A prototype was tested, but it was deemed impossible to produce a gun with the required weight of 3.6 kg. 

 

Funny you mention it because these popped up on Akula's QQ group earlier today.

 

gbbmT8u.jpg

 

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Also, just for the hell of it, this thing!.

 

G2hbjRA.jpg

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On 2/20/2018 at 6:46 AM, LoooSeR said:

AK-15 being tested at -20 with supressor after a lot of ammunition burned through it

1hTc5ydrbJY.jpg

 

#ONELESSGUN

 

5 hours ago, Khand-e said:

Worst Korean soldier was never taught the decades old known concept of "backblast" it would appear.

 

BjxvnnZ.jpg

 

Living up to his GI JOE Codename of "Backblast"...

 

Or

 

The Origin Story of Snake Eyes

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57 minutes ago, Hisname said:

Good day. Tell me please, the cartridges depicted in the last photo are experienced cartridges for an soviet anti-tank rifle PEC М1942 (20x150R)? Thank you.

 

Yes, they are various 20mm RES cartridges and sectioned bullets for them, however I'm not incredibly well versed in the prototype "super at rifles" that the USSR made, EnsignExpendable or Akula probably know a lot more than I do on the subject.

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      There are many who feel that the 5.56 NATO is a superlative rifle round. Much has been said about larger alternatives to 5.56, such as various 6.5mm and 6.8mm rounds among others. Less has been said about smaller rounds. Off the top of my head, I can recall that there was a German 4.6x36mm round, used in the HK36, and the British 4.85x49mm round. Neither of these rounds managed to gain widespread acceptance. My knowledge of the voodoo that is ballistics is somewhat limited, so I'm uncertain as to whether these failures were caused by flaws with the rounds themselves, or because they were below some lower limit of effective bullet size, beyond which performance decreases rapidly. Could we see a resurgence of these concepts in the future, or do they represent an evolutionary dead-end?

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