The Small Arms Thread, Part 8: 2018; ICSR to be replaced by US Army with interim 15mm Revolver Cannon.

[LoooSeR]

[Jägerlein]

 

German H&K G28 M110A1 new marksman rifle for U.S. army infantry

https://www.armyrecognition.com/weapons_defence_industry_military_technology_uk/german_hk_g28_m110a1_new_marksman_rifle_for_u.s._army_infantry.html

( I bet TFB got it at least a month ago...)


Buuut is the Army really shure it doesn`t want the totally DMR adequate scope the germans are using on it?



Well Murrica who got the bigger one? Who?

[Khand-e]

6 hours ago, LoooSeR said:

 

Come to think of it, I was thinking about this.

 

Was the Sterling SMG family the last good indigenous UK gun design before their small arms design ability turned to India level or am I missing any?

[Meplat]

On 3/12/2018 at 1:59 PM, Khand-e said:

 

Come to think of it, I was thinking about this.

 

Was the Sterling SMG family the last good indigenous UK gun design before their small arms design ability turned to India level or am I missing any?

Pretty much. But, if you're going to take the hard left into 'tardsville, at least make sure your last good effort was a good one

 

The Sterling was a very, very good SMG. 

[Sturgeon]

Yeah it's definitely one of my favorites.

[Meplat]

3 hours ago, Sturgeon said:

Yeah it's definitely one of my favorites.

I was "meh" about them, til I got to really play with one. It's currently my "If I could only have one" as far as SMG's go.

[Akula_941]

ZhengZhou Police force around 90s

Around the late 80s and early 90s most of the Chinese police force doesn't equip the Type 85(SVD).  

The only choice for medium range fire are picking the Type56semi（SKS）and mount with optic.

[Hisname]

5 hours ago, Akula_941 said:

ZhengZhou Police force around 90s

 

Many thanks for the photo, in my opinion Type 79 SMG  is much more interesting.

[Jägerlein]

TFB came up with a new article and photos of the newest HK433 version.  In the last paragraph it is stated that: " No word on if the Steyr-Mannlicher RS556 is still involved in the trials. "
This seems to be outdated since Feb 8th. Wether Rheinmetall nor Steyer declared a reson for stepping down from the bidding. While SiG withdrew it`s offer already in Nov. 2017, claiming that the
bidding would be rigged in favour of HK ( besides the arguments given by SIG, the no-ITAR requirement alone was sometinhg like the sword of Damocles for the SIG offer) , the comments below the linked blog aticle indicate that Steyer had additional problems with fullfilling the demands in time. For one the RS556 like advertised was to heavy and fared not very well during the earlier KSK trials. 
 

Source: http://augengeradeaus.net/2018/02/g36-nachfolge-auch-rheinmetall-steyr-mannlicher-steigt-aus

 

 

Question in my on mind: Below the article abaut SIG withdrawing the MCX from the biddign it was mentioned that it seems like the MCX had problems with a demand called: " Geschoßvorlagefähigkeit" which essencially means that
it must be guaranteed that if the barrel is congested with mud or a projectile, a second shot wont lead to a fatal failure. Any idea if this rumor has some substance? Since certain american people  like to do strange things with mud an guns...

 

 

[LoooSeR]

[LoooSeR]

Polenar continue to do high quality content

 

[Sturgeon]

I spy Phuc Long...

[Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect]

[Donward]

10 hours ago, Sturgeon said:

I spy Phuc Long...

 

I was going to say, "Is that Phuc Long?"

 

I haven't heard from him for awhile.

[Belesarius]

5 hours ago, Donward said:

 

I was going to say, "Is that Phuc Long?"

 

I haven't heard from him for awhile.

A "long while."?

 

[Belesarius]

11 hours ago, Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect said:

I'd actually like to see a youtube video of that firing. Just for validation of my understanding of the physics involved.

 

[Ramlaen]

It would be karma if it's the wrist breaker it looks to be.

[LoooSeR]

Would be interesting to see this in action

 

Reminds me GShG - 7.62

[LoooSeR]

 

[LoooSeR]

https://vk.com/kalashism?w=wall-160278262_631

 

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   So, the CZ 807 for a 7.62x39.

 

   The rifle is very light. So much, that it is too light. And for the [7.62x]39 catridge and even more so. On the interner the data varies, in fact the mass is just slightly over 2.5 kg. In his hands lies nicely. The rate of fire per eye is above 700 rounds / min, which also does not add control.

 

   When thrown on a wooden surface from a height of 1.5 m, the butt lock was broken in the extended position. Polymer mags, without metal inserts (to strengthen the construction),  inserted directly [in a straight move]. Bulky.

   The ergonomics are standard for this type of rifles, all controls are ambi. The buttstock seemed too voluminous, you could make it more slim. But in general, everything is in order. Barrels are replaceable. IIRC, the rifle came with a short barrel, but after the first shooting for a group guys from CZ mounted 20" "fishing pole".

 

   With intensive shooting under normal conditions (about 4000 shots in short bursts from three rifles a day, with short interruptions for cooling, without maintenance), there were many delays and breakdowns. After a while I just stopped counting. Non-ejection of the cartridge case, breakage of the ejector, breakdown of the hummer [not sure if translated it right] light primer taps, failures to feed. And the set of spare parts and their number were regulated before the start of firing, and it seems that some of these problems were known and expected.
   It did leave the feeling that the rifle was simply quickly re-barreled/modified [for 7.62x39] for Asian and Middle Eastern tenders, not particularly bothering with internal factory tests.

 

Quote

   To shoot for groups Czechs brought with them an incredibly high-tech machine.  Machine did not help the guys. We repeatedly outshot them from the "inaccurate" 103. Lying, from bags.

 

   As a result, for this "unsportsmanlike" behavior and repeated attempts to mislead the receiving side, the CZ rifles were dropped from trials. No futher details, for ethical reasons.

   In the third photo, you can first see a Czech rifle in the .308Win (competitor to SCAR-H, Beretta ARX-200), first photo on the Internet. She worked a little better than her sister, which also speaks of haste in preparing a sample for a particular contest.

 

   It remains to sympathize with the guys from GIGN, I hope they do not have to shoot a lot of it. Or maybe on quality ammunition and with a 9 "barrel everything will be completely different.

 

 

Spoiler

 

Groups:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

[LoooSeR]

https://vk.com/kalashism?w=wall-160278262_516

 

Quote

   Today we will talk about special "tools" of JSC "TsNIITOChMASh", namely the pistol SR-1 and the submachine gun SR-2M.

   Both of them i periodically manage to shoot in conditions of different shooting ranges, altough in case of SR-2M it is noticeably more, because it is much more common.

Both devices use a 9x21 cartridge of various types, I used only SP-10 (7N29).

 

   SR-1 - large, with a thick handle. People with small hands will find it to be not very comfortable. The recoil is quite bearable. Despite the lack of protruding parts, is unlikely to fit for concealed carry. I do not recall any problems with it on a shooting range, although shooting conditions have always been ideal.
   On a man-sized target, it turned out pistol can work up to 200 meters, a good groups could have been achieved on a hundred meters. Does pistol needs such range in principle - I'm not sure, because the distance of use of this type of weapons rarely exceeds 7-10 meters. When shooting through obstacles at short distances (for example, through the windshield), the bullet keeps the trajectory well. Although, I believe, 7N21 will work not badly as well.
   This gun is used rarely in law enforcements/military because of the lack of a mods in the market, incompatibility with various sighting devices, the impossibility of installing accessories without adapters, a rare and expensive cartridge.

 

   SR-2M - in fact the only domestic compact SMG (with a magazine in the handle), that used in combat operations.
   Very accurate, it is a pleasure to shot in in semi auto at 100m and 200m. The standard collimator has two marks (a "corner" and a point) just for these two distances.
Totally disgusting buttstock. It is not convenient and it is not pleasant, even in summer clothes it is too long, what can we say when using armor.
   High rate of fire with such a cartridge does not have the best effect on the control of weapons when firing from one hand.
   The version "M" on the forehand has holes for fixing the rails, which solves the problem of installing accessories, but the rail for the collimator is available only for the version of "MP", which I did not see at all, but many times I saw guys just jamming rail straight to the reciever cover.

 

   Make it lighter by 200 grams, rebuild in 9x19, modifiy gas system into something more "SMG-ish" ... and you will get a B&T MP9 😆 which, by the way, also has excessive rate of fire.

 

[Collimatrix]

Russian operator types do seem to love the B&T MP9.  I'm not sure I get the attraction myself, as I still get flashbacks from trying to field strip it.

[LoooSeR]

 

Quote

So, inomarki

 

   Let's start with SCAR-H.
In short - it is awesome.

   Didn't had opportunity to shoot very much with it, but observed plenty of the various stages of testing, including the resource, accuracy, shooting in difficult conditions, etc.

 

Quote

   The kit with the rifle was very "greasy" - replaceable barrels, titanium suppressors, a regular underbarrel grenade launcher, a bunch of optics, bipods, a whole suitcase of supplies for maintenance and full of "chemistry".

   "Tool" is light, thanks to the lower polymer receiver and the upper made of aluminum. There are no questions to ergonomics, everything is convenient and on its place. In full auto it is quite controlable, the rate of fire is small, around 500 shots / min, but I see absolutely no sense in this mode for this rifle.

   Assembly-disassembly is simple and straightforward, easy to maintain. Pretty clean-clean rifle.

 

 

Quote

   "On the resource" [testing resource of the rifle/wear] (there were 3 assault rifles with 10 000 rounds shot through each) there were a few delays due to the shitty cartridge. The local .308 was almost as disgusting as the 7.62x39, which I wrote about in one of the first posts.

   The accuracy of firing at 100m from an open sight (with rifle resting on the bag in a lying position, with bipods or a machine/bench on a table), to put it mildly, did not impressed me. I suppose that the problem is again in the ammo, and guys used something like Norma, Lapuy or RVS holes would be much closer to each other.

 

   Separately, I must say about the FN team - very nice and professional guys, it's a pleasure to work with.

 

   On difficult conditions test, there were small jambs, too. There is one simple rule - little firing and bad conditions - wipe your weapon dry from the inside.
   Well, often the customer is to blame. Once, in front of my eyes, soldier of the host party pressed the AK 103 to the dune with the right side and dragged it for a half a meter with a muzzle facing forward, stuffing a pound of sand into it, and then wondered "why it was not shooting?"

 

Quote

   If the memory serves right, there were no breakages for 30K + shots, unlike the ARX-200, MPT-76 and a new rifle from CZ, which does not seem to have a name yet. They often had problems with hummer, extractors and polymer mags without reinforcement. Stuck cartridges in the chamber (guess to who they went immediately went to and who did not take a ramrod to the shooting range? =)

   In fact, the only drawback of SCAR-H can be called its price. With the account that the civilian version in the US costs more than 3 kilobucks, it can be assumed that a combat rifle with that kit of everything will cost much more.

 

[LoooSeR]

SV-98 with aluminium chassis and 1P88 sight, that guy who wrote previous post ("Kalashizm") is on the picture.

[Sturgeon]

What competition were these trials for?