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The Small Arms Thread, Part 8: 2018; ICSR to be replaced by US Army with interim 15mm Revolver Cannon.


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Let's all take a trip back to the late 1970s and early 1980s.  This was the time of punk.  This was the time of despair.   Punk was all about minimalism; strip everything down to a few chords, wear

Stechkin's Abakan (TKB-0146). https://www.kalashnikov.ru/abakan-stechkina-avtomat-stechkina-tkb-0146/        Bullpup, system of "recoil impulse shifted in time", 2-stage

So what, my 5.56 rounds are groundbreaking too if I shoot the dirt.

SOCOM buying a shit ton of Mk46's and Mk48's in preparation for their "super 6.5mm SAW" concept? 

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/09/04/socom-orders-more-mk46-and-mk48-light-machine-guns/

 

Honestly, I could care less about the 6.5 mafia and care more about them making cobalt or tantalum lined uber barrels a reality:

https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2016/armament/18355_Armstrong.pdf

 

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What sort of round would be an ideal machine-gun cartridge for 1930´s, it seems that most of the nations that had 6.5 as a rifle cartridge went for larger calibre's during the period, in hindsight was this really necessary, what was the reason? did .30 MG's have better barrel life or something? another thing that has been bugging me is the comparison between 6.5 Creedmoor and 7.62 NATO as MG cartridges, would the 6.5 have any real advantage over 7.62 NATO for a GPMG.

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32 minutes ago, Toimisto said:

What sort of round would be an ideal machine-gun cartridge for 1930´s, it seems that most of the nations that had 6.5 as a rifle cartridge went for larger calibre's during the period, in hindsight was this really necessary, what was the reason? did .30 MG's have better barrel life or something? another thing that has been bugging me is the comparison between 6.5 Creedmoor and 7.62 NATO as MG cartridges, would the 6.5 have any real advantage over 7.62 NATO for a GPMG.

 

Interesting that you ask, as I was just talking about this on a Discord channel the other day:

 

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RC is "relative capacity", i.e. the ratio between the propellant capacity of the case and the area of the bore. In other words, .243 Winchester has a much higher RC than .358 Winchester. Before the post-war era the propellants available made high performance rounds like the 6.5mm Swedish pretty problematic for most nations, and it was deemed desirable to have a larger volume inside the bullet jacket for penetrators, observation material, pyrotechnics, etc.

 

6.5 Creedmoor is a very modern cartridge that achieves performance levels 100-150 ft/s faster than the historical 6.5x55 Swedish Sk. Ptr. m/41 with the same heavy bullets from barrels ~5 inches shorter, despite having almost 10% less case capacity. As a machine gun round it makes quite a lot of sense today (far better trajectory, wind drift, and energy delivered on target than 7.62), but it's not clear that would have been true even 50-60 years ago, let alone at the turn of the 19th/20th century. Historically, nations struggled to field rounds with RCs over 3 - examples being the 6.5x52 Carcano, 6.5x50SR Japanese (both of which are are not much higher than 3), 6.5x55 Swedish. Unsuccessful rounds like the .276 Enfield, 7mm Meunier, and 6mm Lee Navy all also had high RCs comparable to the 6.5x55 Swedish - that the Swedes were the only country to successfully field a very high RC round and stick to it is telling, I think.

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      There are many who feel that the 5.56 NATO is a superlative rifle round. Much has been said about larger alternatives to 5.56, such as various 6.5mm and 6.8mm rounds among others. Less has been said about smaller rounds. Off the top of my head, I can recall that there was a German 4.6x36mm round, used in the HK36, and the British 4.85x49mm round. Neither of these rounds managed to gain widespread acceptance. My knowledge of the voodoo that is ballistics is somewhat limited, so I'm uncertain as to whether these failures were caused by flaws with the rounds themselves, or because they were below some lower limit of effective bullet size, beyond which performance decreases rapidly. Could we see a resurgence of these concepts in the future, or do they represent an evolutionary dead-end?

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