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The Small Arms Thread, Part 8: 2018; ICSR to be replaced by US Army with interim 15mm Revolver Cannon.


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1 minute ago, Sturgeon said:

 

Correct, he served with the L1A1. I've had extensive conversations with him via email and he is pretty insistent on a projectile weight of at least 90 grains/6 grams.

Maybe a bias against 5.56 due to the L85-shitshowdumpsterfire then (?)
(IIRC, Radway Green 5.56 was pretty shitty too?)

Why so insistent on at least 90grains?
Is he a GPC proponent, a bullpup fanboy?

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Let's all take a trip back to the late 1970s and early 1980s.  This was the time of punk.  This was the time of despair.   Punk was all about minimalism; strip everything down to a few chords, wear

Stechkin's Abakan (TKB-0146). https://www.kalashnikov.ru/abakan-stechkina-avtomat-stechkina-tkb-0146/        Bullpup, system of "recoil impulse shifted in time", 2-stage

So what, my 5.56 rounds are groundbreaking too if I shoot the dirt.

3 minutes ago, CDNcommissar said:

Maybe a bias against 5.56 due to the L85-shitshowdumpsterfire then (?)
(IIRC, Radway Green 5.56 was pretty shitty too?)

Why so insistent on at least 90grains?
Is he a GPC proponent, a bullpup fanboy?

 

GPC proponent yes, bullpups not so much I think.

I don't think he's as biased against the L85 as I am, but moreso than Tony Williams is probably.

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13 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

 

GPC proponent yes, bullpups not so much I think.

I don't think he's as biased against the L85 as I am, but moreso than Tony Williams is probably.

Given his age and when he served, I'm not terribly surprised that he's a GPC proponent (and given that 'overmatch' is a hot-button issue, afterall, he is a marketer).
Why are you so (much more) biased against the L85? 


Did Tony serve?
(His enthusiasm for bullpups seems to stem from the rudimentary quantitative data Janes etc. provides. How often does he shoot, and does he own firearms?)

Edited by CDNcommissar
Sentence structure
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1 hour ago, CDNcommissar said:

Given his age and when he served, I'm not terribly surprised that he's a GPC proponent (and given that 'overmatch' is a hot-button issue, afterall, he is a marketer).

 

Like @Ramlaen alluded to, there's a big incentive to adopt a new round. I detail this in two posts:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/07/15/addressing-overmatch-part-1-rule-nothing-no-one/

 

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/09/30/long-range-infantry-calibers-just-marketing-smoke-mirrors/

 

1 hour ago, CDNcommissar said:

Why are you so (much more) biased against the L85? 

 

It's a piece of shit. The A2 rises to merely "an uninspired, clunky, and acceptably reliable piece of shit", but it's still a POS.

 

1 hour ago, CDNcommissar said:

Did Tony serve?
(His enthusiasm for bullpups seems to stem from the rudimentary quantitative data Janes etc. provides. How often does he shoot, and does he own firearms?)

 

He did not serve to my knowledge and he hasn't been a regular shooter since the 1970s or '80s based on what I've heard from him.

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22 hours ago, Sturgeon said:

 

Like @Ramlaen alluded to, there's a big incentive to adopt a new round. I detail this in two posts:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/07/15/addressing-overmatch-part-1-rule-nothing-no-one/

 

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/09/30/long-range-infantry-calibers-just-marketing-smoke-mirrors/

 

 

It's a piece of shit. The A2 rises to merely "an uninspired, clunky, and acceptably reliable piece of shit", but it's still a POS.

 

 

He did not serve to my knowledge and he hasn't been a regular shooter since the 1970s or '80s based on what I've heard from him.

The UK ought to have phased it out instead of upgrading to the A2. IIRC, the A2 is merely so-so according to the documents Weapons Man (RIP) posted.
Ian's series on the SA80 prototypes and L85 family was fascinating. Have you watched BotR's two videos on the civilian SA80?


That might also help explain his love of bullpups. There seems to be a correlation (perhaps even a causation) between those who aren't 'shooters' and bullpup-fanboyism..."MOAR BARREL LENGTH FOR GIVEN OVERALL LENGTH IS GUDDER"
Does Williams have a STEM background or a background in the firearms industry?

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2012-vintage GPC and AR15 replacement herpderp, courtesy of the Military Review, the US Army's Professional Journal


"AN ARMY OUTGUNNED: Physics Demands A New Basic Combat Weapon" by Joseph P. Avery, Ph.D


Two observations: 1)Title mentions a new "BCW", but not why. 2)Yes he has a PhD, but it's not a STEM degree
 

 

Homeslice needs to "stay in his lane" ;)

I've skimmed through the first 4 paragraphs so far, and each is built a a derp-diamond:

(bolding courtesy of your CDNcommissar, the helpful politest commissar)


The bulk of the first paragraph:

Quote

Despite an increasing portfolio of enemies that are flexible, well armed, and robust, our Army, Marine Corps, and special operations forces have been stuck for decades hauling assault rifles firing NATO 5.56x45 millimeter (mm) (.223 caliber) varmint rounds over a half-century old. A decade into a new century, we need to adopt a more robust projectile and basic combat weapon (BCW) to meet current and emerging performance requirements. Despite incremental improvements, the M16 rifle and its 5.56 mm NATO round are unable to compete effectively in current and anticipated combat environments because of the physics of ballistic performance, combat terrain, and the nature and fighting characteristics of the enemy.

lol no

Second paragraph - MP.44 and AK-47 derp:

Quote

When the first official assault rifle appeared on the battlefield, the German MP-44, named the “Sturmgewehr” or assault rifle, its purpose was to provide German infantry with greater firepower by replacing the five-round, 8 mm, bolt-action K98 Mauser with the 30-round, 7.92 mm, fully automatic assault rifle. This development was a significant leap in firepower for the individual combat soldier in World War II. It is no accident that the highly rated and prolific Russian AK-47 looks very similar to the MP-44 that was introduced five years earlier. Hugo Schmeisser, the captured German designer of the MP-44, was working in the same Russian factory where Mikhail Kalashnikov was designing the AK-47, and Schmeisser obviously provided great influence in the design.

lolwut
Jesus, no
#triggered

Third paragraph - Blathers on about Marshall's nonsense, before mentioning that Marshall was spewing nonsense
But wait! There's more, Peak Derp (of this paragraph) is achieved in the last sentence:

Quote

American weapons development continued to assume that we needed weapons that could discharge a large volume of “shoot and spray” fire—not well aimed and placed shots.

u wot m8?
"The Cult of the Rifleman"

Forth paragraph's Peak Derp, again in the last sentence:

Quote

Today, the combat environment is very different, and the enemy is frequently quite visible at all ranges from close quarters to over 1,000 yards.

wrong.gif
FIND (from FIND, FIX, FIGHT, FINISH) (the more contemporary version F2T2EA is FIND, FIX, TRACK, TARGET, ENGAGE, ASSESS...IMHO a worse acronym, but I digress) is still extremely difficult. The enemy still gets a vote. 
He is equivocating long LOS with higher visibility.
A handful of counterexamples to his point that today's combat environment is different: the steppes of the Eastern Front had quite long LOS, the desert combat of Desert Storm had quite long LOS etc etc
It's not really any different. Conflict occurs in environments where humans are, just as it always has. 

 

This is a important aspect of the disadvantages with 5.56 replacements, they neglect the difficulties with FIND (while and/or assuming perfect conditions for a more powerful cartridge)
His reasoning: combat environment is different, longer LOS -> MOAR VISIBLE -> 223 POODLE VARMINT SHOOTER LACKS RANGE

Fifth paragraph: MUH THURDY CAL WOOD AND STEEL(?)

Quote

In 1957, the Army selected and issued the 20-round, automatic, 150 grain (gr.), 7.62x51 mm M14 rifle as the new American BCW. It was not enthusiastically embraced because it was too long, too heavy (11.5 lbs loaded), and had a powerful recoil (17.25 lbs). Despite these drawbacks, the M14’s maximum effective range was a respectable 460 meters with the sniper version having a range of 690 to 800 meters. Limited enthusiasm about the heavy M14 led to an immediate search for its replacement.

ugh
TO BE CONTINUED?

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Just now, LoooSeR said:

Don't know. Another photo from Hard blog about Geksagon products (suppressor) with more drum mags.

5X-L06DQm2g.jpg

 

Those are the common 75 round 7.62x39 magazines, the mag I am interested in is the green steel one for 5.45mm.

 

Also, I don't think I've seen those 7.62x39 polymer mags before. The ones with the round holes (which appear to be witness holes) and the transverse running ribs.

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UK Award Heckler & Koch $95 million Contract For SA80 Rifle Upgrade

 

Quote

The UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) issued a notice on the 28th October that NSAF Ltd., the UK subsidiary of Heckler & Koch, will be contracted to upgrade 44,000 rifles to A3 standard. The contract is reported to be worth £75 million or $95.6 million. This gives a roughly estimated per rifle cost of £1,700, expensive when compared to the cost of a milspec M4 for example. The A2 upgrade is said to have cost £400 per rifle (a somewhat conservative estimate), while the A3 upgrade does include new upper receivers the cost seems prohibitively high. There has been no comment on the contract from Heckler & Koch as yet, nor an official statement from the MoD.

The A3 upgrade fixes issues with the over-rotation of the selector lever, adds a new upper receiver and refurbishes the lower. The rifle is also cerakoted flat dark earth. A new custom forend from H&K has been added and a full-length top rail improves optic mounting. The rifle’s barrel is also now free floated improving accuracy.

 

Quote

The news has garnered some tabloid attention with a recent Telegraph article seizing upon a quote from Major Ollie Pope, of the Infantry Trials and Development Unit, who described the A3 as “a more accurate more lethal weapon than almost anyone else out there.”

 

To put that into perspective, the retail price of a 15.7" Colt Canada Gen3 IUR is 2379.95CAD or £1385.10
 

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