politics Post Election Thread: Democracy Dies In Darkness And You Can Help

[Walter_Sobchak]

4 minutes ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 

Just what is Mike Pence's crime against teh gays again?

 

 

 

I didn't say crime.  I was just noting that Mike Pence has consistently run on being a conservative Christian candidate and has voted againt legislation favored by the LGBT community.

 

Also, it was reported (one could say leaked), that Trump joked when it came to Pence's attitude toward LGBT folks,  "Don't ask that guy — he wants to hang them all!"  https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/trump-reportedly-jokes-about-mike-pence-wanting-hang-gays-n811086

[Sturgeon]

3 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

It's the McCarthy parallels that have me worried.....That whole 'reds under the beds' thing was not your finest hour really.

 

There's just no excuse for falling victim to that sort of psyop/media-manipulation BS in the internet age.....It wasn't the Russians, it was the DNC & UK Tories.

 

The pure, saccharine irony of that, coming from a leftist! 

[Sturgeon]

44 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

Actually, I would guess Trump is not nearly as afraid of gay folks as much of his evangelical base. 

 

Would you guess that because it was Trump who singlehandedly ended homosexuality as a political issue in this country?

Because it really rather annoys me that, after well over a decade of moralizing about this issue from the Left, the Right and the Trump campaign never got a shred of credit for that from them.

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

22 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

I didn't say crime.  I was just noting that Mike Pence has consistently run on being a conservative Christian candidate and has voted againt legislation favored by the LGBT community.

 

Also, it was reported (one could say leaked), that Trump joked when it came to Pence's attitude toward LGBT folks,  "Don't ask that guy — he wants to hang them all!"  https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/trump-reportedly-jokes-about-mike-pence-wanting-hang-gays-n811086

 

 

I think giving any weight to Trumps joke is pretty ridiculous, it was a joke.  Mike Pence has been slandered for some heinous shit, he has never said or endorsed, and it's pretty ironic, the left is out to get Trump when Pence would replace him and would be a much harder opponent to fight since he doesn't stick his foot in mouth all the time.  He would get elected in Trump's stead if he took up Trump's agenda with a vigor.  The right no longer cars about Gays getting married, except for a few weirdos in the woods. 

 

The lefts crazy LGBTXYZ/PEDO bullshit is another reason people are fleeing the left in droves.  The parts of the LGBT agenda that were worthy of passing, passed when it was still LGBTQ, and now they are just pushing straight up insanity and child abuse, unless you think putting children on hormone blockers and normalising pedophilia are good things... 

[Walter_Sobchak]

Jeeps, it's not "slander" to report the facts.  Pence has consistently been opposed to legislation favored by the LGBT community throughout his career as a public servant and media personality.  Also, I have seen plenty of articles from the left saying that getting rid of Trump would not be much of a victory since he would just be replaced by Pence.  It's a pretty common concern amongst liberal circles actually.

 

I would would not minimize the Christian right's antipathy to gay folks to being just "a few weirdos in the woods."   The shift in acceptance of LGBT folks in my lifetime has been pretty amazing to witness.  I generally operate under the assumption that anything that has happened in my relatively short span on this planet could easily prove to be impermanent.  History is replete with examples of societies that became more "traditional" or religiously fundamentalist when things got tough.  

 

At the same time, I can certainly understand peoples frustration with the current state of leftish Identity politics and the proliferation of nonsensical acronyms to describe every minute variation of peoples sexual preferences and orientations.  

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

8 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

Jeeps, it's not "slander" to report the facts.  Pence has consistently been opposed to legislation favored by the LGBT community throughout his career as a public servant and media personality.  Also, I have seen plenty of articles from the left saying that getting rid of Trump would not be much of a victory since he would just be replaced by Pence.  It's a pretty common concern amongst liberal circles actually.

 

I would would not minimize the Christian right's antipathy to gay folks to being just "a few weirdos in the woods."   The shift in acceptance of LGBT folks in my lifetime has been pretty amazing to witness.  I generally operate under the assumption that anything that has happened in my relatively short span on this planet could easily prove to be impermanent.  History is replete with examples of societies that became more "traditional" or religiously fundamentalist when things got tough.  

 

At the same time, I can certainly understand peoples frustration with the current state of leftish Identity politics and the proliferation of nonsensical acronyms to describe every minute variation of peoples sexual preferences and orientations.  

 

When people say Pence is for Conversion Therapy, they are not reporting the facts,  and you haven't, but the left sure has, that's what I was talking about. I'm surprised you haven't heard it, surely in the circles you run in, someone whined about how he wanted to convert teh gays? 

 

Gay rights are not going anywhere, the people on the right don't give a shit anymore, the world didn't end when they got Gay Marriage, they moved on. 

 

I see you are aware of a few the lefty problems but what about denying biology and pushing to normalize pedophiles both are real things. What about the lefts blatant attack on Free Speech with pushing the LGBQ "say my pronoun bitch or go to jail law", or Hate speech laws, that are an even more blatant attack on the First Amendment. Are you concerned about the push to ban guns, since that's what their Semi-auto ban will do? Well, anything fun anyway. 

 

 

I mean yeah I get it, Trumps an Asshole, and not presidential, and a jerkface,  but he's not the one attacking two of my fundamental rights, so it gets kinda old to hear all this talk as if he has done anything all that bad, but the abortion of a budget he signed. He is also getting a ton of good stuff done, so I can ignore him being an asshole. I won't ignore the left in this country corrupting the government to force him out of office while saying straight up they want to limit my rights. 

[Priory_of_Sion]

9 minutes ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

normalize pedophiles

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

3 minutes ago, Priory_of_Sion said:

 

 

Ouch, and point taken, but they were not normalizing him as a Pedo, they were trying to normalize him as Senator. 

 

His being a probable pedo, and not getting elected shows the Republicans don't really support pedos. 

 

The Left wants to Normalise it as another identity, that will be given victim status because just like the gays and the trannys, pedos have no choice. 

[Priory_of_Sion]

Where has the left, beyond like 5 crazy people, come out to support pedophilia? 

[Belesarius]

18 minutes ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 

 

Ouch, and point taken, but they were not normalizing him as a Pedo, they were trying to normalize him as Senator. 

 

His being a probable pedo, and not getting elected shows the Republicans don't really support pedos. 

 

The Left wants to Normalise it as another identity, that will be given victim status because just like the gays and the trannys, pedos have no choice. 

Yeah no. You are full of shit on that Jeeps.  No one on the left that I know wants to normalize pedophilia. This kind of shit is exactly what I was talking about earlier. You are taking fringe viewpoints and taking them as mainstream.  It's a similar problem to people on the left thinking people like MZW are mainstream gun owners, or the WBC represents an average Christian viewpoint.

 

Just stop.

 

 

[Priory_of_Sion]

For the record, the right only probably has like 5 people that still want mass conversion therapy as a govt policy. We like to make strawmen out of our political opponents, it is fun and easy to do. Don't? 

[Ramlaen]

I'm guessing Jeeps is talking about the "I'm a pedophile, but not a monster." article that Salon had up, at least until the left went after Milo claiming he was a pedo.

[Belesarius]

11 minutes ago, Ramlaen said:

I'm guessing Jeeps is talking about the "I'm a pedophile, but not a monster." article that Salon had up, at least until the left went after Milo claiming he was a pedo.

Salon as a credible media source.

 

Fucking lulz.

 

[Priory_of_Sion]

Really weird article, but I wouldn't call it pro-pedophilia per se (I also agree Salon deleting it is scumy and, to agree with Bele, Salon shouldn't really be read with anymore conviction than The Federalist) and isn't Milo still around too despite him being, you know, a pedo? 

[Ramlaen]

5 minutes ago, Priory_of_Sion said:

isn't Milo still around too despite him being, you know, a pedo? 

 

I think his company is about dead, and I doubt being labeled a pedo for talking about his experiences with older men helped.

[roguetechie]

https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/mo-brooks-says-republicans-are-resigning-because-of-assassination-fears

 

Gee looks like Congress is well aware when it comes to their own safety that it's Democrats who overwhelmingly pull triggers...

 

 

If this alone isn't about the most damning social commentary about who the real psychos in this country are and the fucking farce that has been the last 30+ years of fears about right wing extremism, I don't know what the fuck will be good enough for some fucking people...

 

 

 

[Walter_Sobchak]

16 minutes ago, roguetechie said:

https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/mo-brooks-says-republicans-are-resigning-because-of-assassination-fears

 

Gee looks like Congress is well aware when it comes to their own safety that it's Democrats who overwhelmingly pull triggers...

 

 

If this alone isn't about the most damning social commentary about who the real psychos in this country are and the fucking farce that has been the last 30+ years of fears about right wing extremism, I don't know what the fuck will be good enough for some fucking people...

 

 

 

 

It's like you completely missed the point several people here have been trying to make, which is that painting an entire group with a broad brush based on the actions of a few extremists is dangerious and intellectually dishonest.  

 

Also,, it's very convenient for your arguement that you forget that death threats against the President went up 400% after Obama was elected. Again, there are idiots and extremists on either end of the spectrum.

 

 

[Donward]

To come to Jeeps' defense a bit, there are of course extremists on both sides of the political divide. Part of the frustration that law-abiding Conservatives feel is that the general media and cultural narrative is that the extremism is coming SOLELY from our side.

 

A Bernie bro stabs a bunch of people in Portland and all of a sudden it's the fault of Trump voters.

 

A mosque burns down (twice) in Bellevue, WA and it's Trump's fault that he's "created an environment where extremism can flourish. Well, no, it was a homeless dude (and a teenage squatter the second time) who lit the match. 

 

A guy shoots up a congressional baseball practice and clearly it is a right-winger... oops... no, it was another lefty. 

 

Now don't get me wrong, Conservatives have their own Jump to Conclusions mat that we hop on. But other than a few blogs, websites, talk radio and Fox News (which I'm not a fan of and which is staffed by people faking being a Conservative for financial gain) the preponderance of the media consisting of network news, newspapers, blogs, YouTube/Facebook/Twitter, Hollywood and the music industry, and even sports leagues are pretty far on the Left of the spectrum. 

 

So if Conservatives act like we've been put upon, it's because we have. Particularly when we manage to get "OUR" guy elected and he's being thwarted in ways previous Presidents have been immune to such as the confirmation process where EVERY single cabinet appointment has been "Borked". Or how every single Executive action taken by the President - even though it is clearly Constitutional - has been challenged in court via a campaign of blatant judge shopping. 

 

This stuff did not happen in the previous Administration. 

[roguetechie]

1 hour ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

It's like you completely missed the point several people here have been trying to make, which is that painting an entire group with a broad brush based on the actions of a few extremists is dangerious and intellectually dishonest.  

 

 

Or, maybe just maybe, I was making a very different point entirely...

 

(Psst, Walt... I'm saying I was making a different point entirely and quite frankly you'd have written some sort of objection and painted me with this same brush even had you actually got the point I was really making)

 

I know you really did miss my actual point though by the simple fact that you're nowhere near as irate as you would be if you actually caught it.

 

LOL

 

It's ok though...

 

And yeah I'm perfectly aware that there's "extremists" on both sides, to think otherwise about me much less say it... Well I'll just say that crack about intellectual dishonesty gave me a much needed laugh, thank you.

 

At this point though I'll refrain from actually spelling out in detail what I was saying as tongue in cheek and civilly as possible in my initial post, because I absolutely will not be able to do so in a nice way.

 

My patience for all the people out there whose answer to everything is you're just as bad as we are or other riffs on the same basic theme is pretty much at a complete end.

 

So it's just better if I leave this alone

 

 

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

Hey, fine, I drop the pedo thing, for now, because frankly I don't feel like going through the trouble it would be to try and prove the point, and you are probably right. Maybe I have delved too far down the identity politics hole, and am peeking into the extremes.  More so, I will drop it since it seems to get the attention when the issues with the First Amendment we should all be concerned about get ignored. 

 

Do I really to explain how? Or will that get me painted as some extremist again? 

 

[Walter_Sobchak]

4 hours ago, roguetechie said:

 

Or, maybe just maybe, I was making a very different point entirely...

 

(Psst, Walt... I'm saying I was making a different point entirely and quite frankly you'd have written some sort of objection and painted me with this same brush even had you actually got the point I was really making)

 

I know you really did miss my actual point though by the simple fact that you're nowhere near as irate as you would be if you actually caught it.

 

LOL

 

It's ok though...

 

And yeah I'm perfectly aware that there's "extremists" on both sides, to think otherwise about me much less say it... Well I'll just say that crack about intellectual dishonesty gave me a much needed laugh, thank you.

 

At this point though I'll refrain from actually spelling out in detail what I was saying as tongue in cheek and civilly as possible in my initial post, because I absolutely will not be able to do so in a nice way.

 

My patience for all the people out there whose answer to everything is you're just as bad as we are or other riffs on the same basic theme is pretty much at a complete end.

 

So it's just better if I leave this alone

 

 

 

Relevant to your comments:  https://www.npr.org/2018/04/27/606230683/despite-so-much-winning-the-right-feels-like-its-losing

[Ulric]

12 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

It's like you completely missed the point several people here have been trying to make, which is that painting an entire group with a broad brush based on the actions of a few extremists is dangerious and intellectually dishonest.  

 

Also,, it's very convenient for your arguement that you forget that death threats against the President went up 400% after Obama was elected. Again, there are idiots and extremists on either end of the spectrum.

 

 

 

Not all rectangles are squares, but all squares are rectangles, you know?

 

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but quite a bit of terrorism is perpetrated by radical Islamists.

 

Not all lefties are crazed gunmen, but a fair number of crazed gunmen happen to be on the left side of the spectrum. The shootings are usually not politically motivated, either. The issue that comes into play here is that every time there is a shooting, the vast majority of main stream media comes out with conjecture and misinformation as to the perpetrators political alignment and affiliations. After the theater shooting in Aurora, the media went digging through Tea Party records and found someone with a similar name to the shooter, picked it up and ran with it. Turns out, it was some fucked up college kid who went off his meds (which is a trait that shows up more than once, by the way). Then they play the blame game and go on parade pointing fingers at every conservative and pro gun organization that they can find. The left leaning media paints anyone who disagrees with them on gun control with the broad brush of things such being complicit with or even guilty by association of murdering children on national TV. If you want to talk about intellectual dishonesty and blanket discrimination, start there.

 

PS, more examples.

 Ebay, Google, and other major players on the online world harassing, banning, blocking, demonetizing, censoring or in other ways suppressing opinions that dissent from their left leaning world view. I know of businesses that have had their Ebay account frozen because there we selling slings that could be used on AR-15s. That was the day that I learned that, according to Ebay's customer service department, it is AGAINST THE LAW!!!! to sell slings for "Assault Rifle 15s" on Ebay. Dating sites have shadow banned people who have pictures of firearms in their profile. Google suppresses search results that are against their ideology. Twitter is confirmed to be shadow banning conservatives based on certain algorithms. YouTube constantly goes after conservatives, and they have started shutting down channels that feature firearms. These are companies that have no business bringing up politics, but it seems to be at the very core of their modus operandi. Do you need more examples? The right has some bad apples for sure, but the left has orders of magnitude more, and they hold influential positions in society.

 

Also, do we know how many death threats Trump and his family have received?

[Ulric]

20 hours ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 

 

Ouch, and point taken, but they were not normalizing him as a Pedo, they were trying to normalize him as Senator. 

 

His being a probable pedo, and not getting elected shows the Republicans don't really support pedos. 

 

The Left wants to Normalise it as another identity, that will be given victim status because just like the gays and the trannys, pedos have no choice. 

 

 

Age is just a number, you know. They said that they identified as a 19 year old girl, so it's ok even if they are a 12 year old boy, right?

[Priory_of_Sion]

2 hours ago, Ulric said:

 

Not all rectangles are squares, but all squares are rectangles, you know?

 

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but quite a bit of terrorism is perpetrated by radical Islamists.

 

Not all lefties are crazed gunmen, but a fair number of crazed gunmen happen to be on the left side of the spectrum. The shootings are usually not politically motivated, either. The issue that comes into play here is that every time there is a shooting, the vast majority of main stream media comes out with conjecture and misinformation as to the perpetrators political alignment and affiliations. After the theater shooting in Aurora, the media went digging through Tea Party records and found someone with a similar name to the shooter, picked it up and ran with it. Turns out, it was some fucked up college kid who went off his meds (which is a trait that shows up more than once, by the way). Then they play the blame game and go on parade pointing fingers at every conservative and pro gun organization that they can find. The left leaning media paints anyone who disagrees with them on gun control with the broad brush of things such being complicit with or even guilty by association of murdering children on national TV. If you want to talk about intellectual dishonesty and blanket discrimination, start there.

 

PS, more examples.

 Ebay, Google, and other major players on the online world harassing, banning, blocking, demonetizing, censoring or in other ways suppressing opinions that dissent from their left leaning world view. I know of businesses that have had their Ebay account frozen because there we selling slings that could be used on AR-15s. That was the day that I learned that, according to Ebay's customer service department, it is AGAINST THE LAW!!!! to sell slings for "Assault Rifle 15s" on Ebay. Dating sites have shadow banned people who have pictures of firearms in their profile. Google suppresses search results that are against their ideology. Twitter is confirmed to be shadow banning conservatives based on certain algorithms. YouTube constantly goes after conservatives, and they have started shutting down channels that feature firearms. These are companies that have no business bringing up politics, but it seems to be at the very core of their modus operandi. Do you need more examples? The right has some bad apples for sure, but the left has orders of magnitude more, and they hold influential positions in society.

 

Also, do we know how many death threats Trump and his family have received?

The right political establishment's support (along with some left support) for the drug war, which is the cause of most gun crimes, is, in my opinion, to blame for most of the violence we see. Crazed gunmen, wether politically active or not, are a statistical anomaly.  Maybe getting stoned would help a lot of those freaks out too? 

 

Sounds like there are structural problems in the capitalist-controlled silicon valley that is rewarding left-wing views in order to pander to a certain market over another. 

 

The only president that probably never got death threats was Old Tippecanoe because he had the sense to give himself pneumonia and die immediately after winning his election. 

[Legiondude]

1 hour ago, Priory_of_Sion said:

Sounds like there are structural problems in the capitalist-controlled silicon valley that is rewarding left-wing views in order to pander to a certain market over another. 

Which is why startup minded types are trying to head east of the Rockies and start up a "Blue Collar tech" version in various points out in the heartland