Bar / Cage armour + LASSO + RPGnet

[Militarysta]

https://www.witu.mil.pl/www/biuletyn/ptu_2016/139/23.pdf

(pdf in polish and englis)

ANALIZA NUMERYCZNA EFEKTYWNOŚCI SIATKOWYCH SYSTEMÓW
OCHRONY POJAZDÓW PRZED POCISKAMI KUMULACYJNYMI
NUMERICAL ANALYSIS OF EFFECTIVENESS FOR VEHICLE NET SYSTEMS
PROTECTING AGAINST SHAPED CHARGE PROJECTILES

 

slides from pdf:

 

 

[Militarysta]

http://www.kones.eu/ep/2011/vol18/no1/79.pdf

 

ANALYSIS OF BAR AND NET SCREENS STRUCTURE PROTECTING

VEHICLES AGAINST ANTI-TANK GRENADES FIRED FROM RPG-7

 

 

 

[Militarysta]

https://www.google.pl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj7s5yTgp7RAhXddlAKHaWsDhcQFggkMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fyadda.icm.edu.pl%2Fbaztech%2Felement%2Fbwmeta1.element.baztech-article-PWAA-0029-0006%2Fc%2Fhttpwww_witu_mil_plwwwbiuletynzeszyty20110118p51.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGcuealc1kZEFR5OEIIqeLBX_uu8g&sig2=GVzoIr4HeO685vcGTaPNIQ

 

 

[Militarysta]

And very interesting russian solution, idea simmilar to the RPGnet, but whole "wall" whit metal cilinders have some aditional features - more like camofluage in IR:

 

 

 

[Militarysta]

BTW: Maybe it will be good idea to start new topic about tank main armour (or passive armour, or passive reactive main armour) - generally there is a lot draws and blueprints and very good scientific research about especially soviet main tank armour :-)

[Bronezhilet]

A (not completely correct) simulation of an RPG vs SLAT:

 

 

[SH_MM]

There also is AMAP-P, but it might have been discontinued or the development was never finished. At least later AMAP brochures from IBD and Rheinmetall Chempro's website don't list AMAP-P anymore:

 

 

 

 

Quoted weight is lower than slat armor and comparable to net armor, it defeats RPGs by "disabling the warhead of a RPG by destroying or short-circuiting the ignition circuit."

[Mighty_Zuk]

Use of thin chains? Interesting. 

[Belesarius]

Fascinating stuff guys.

[Militarysta]

"Luke - im your father" - Swedish chain armour:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tested in 1971 reduced SC warhed penetration up to 60% -depend on warhed type

[Mighty_Zuk]

"Luke - I'm your fun uncle"

 

 

 

In case anyone wondered, this is how the Swedish planned the chain armor equipped tank to look like:

 

[Bronezhilet]

 

 

For those wondering, that warhead is an 84mm Carl Gustav HEAT 651 warhead.

[Krieger22]

Quick question (apologies if off topic): Have there been any recorded tests/computer simulations of a tandem charge warhead impacting slat armor?

 

For some reason I'm in an argument with someone who appears to sincerely believe that the precursor charge being intercepted means that the main charge is rendered a dud as well.

[Belesarius]

36 minutes ago, Krieger22 said:

Quick question (apologies if off topic): Have there been any recorded tests/computer simulations of a tandem charge warhead impacting slat armor?

 

For some reason I'm in an argument with someone who appears to sincerely believe that the precursor charge being intercepted means that the main charge is rendered a dud as well.

Sounds like you are arguing with a drooling moron.

[Krieger22]

4 minutes ago, Belesarius said:

Sounds like you are arguing with a drooling moron.

Considering that the argument stems from "I want an out from a situation where the enemy is no longer engaging me from my composite and ERA-protected frontal arc, but now has shots on the rear arc of my vehicle", I'm inclined to agree.

 

Still curious, though.

[Bronezhilet]

3 hours ago, Krieger22 said:

Quick question (apologies if off topic): Have there been any recorded tests/computer simulations of a tandem charge warhead impacting slat armor?

 

For some reason I'm in an argument with someone who appears to sincerely believe that the precursor charge being intercepted means that the main charge is rendered a dud as well.

It's possible but depends on quite a few variables, both from the warheads and armour.

How are the warheads fused? Do the fuses stay intact? Is there enough distance between the slat armour and main armour to make the main warhead hit the slats? Are the slats strong enough to still damage the main warhead after the precursor has passed through?

 

I can do some simulations after my workstation has arrived, which will probably take a few weeks.

[Jägerlein]

5 hours ago, Krieger22 said:

For some reason I'm in an argument with someone who appears to sincerely believe that the precursor charge being intercepted means that the main charge is rendered a dud as well.

I don`t know why the question did not come to my head early since the cage/net-armor thing isn`t exactly new an can be seen everywhere at least since the Strykers:
What about PG-7VR, RPG29 etc. Precharge slipping through but the main charge is destroyed or is the "sting" long enough to make contact with the main armor ( or for ex. a Pzf3-IT 600 seems to have an exorbitant long one) ? Would new generations of PG-7 rockets with a "hardend" front render the whole idea useless? 
 

[SH_MM]

This seems to be RUAG's SidePro-Lasso:

 

 

Slat armor from McCurdy:

 

[Bronezhilet]

On 12/31/2016 at 9:21 AM, Militarysta said:

https://www.witu.mil.pl/www/biuletyn/ptu_2016/139/23.pdf

(pdf in polish and englis)
 

 

slides from pdf:

 

 

Link is dead, but more stuff from this paper:

[Ronny]

I hope this is the right thread.

So to counter ERA, then HEAT warhead often have an additional tandem charge so either penetrate the ERA or detonate ERA tiles.

But what is there any way for HEAT warhead to counter chain and cage armor? 

For example: what happened if 

This

 

hit something like this? 

 

 

For the sake of discussion, let assume the missile hit the tank where there is a cage or chain cover it 

[LoooSeR]

1 hour ago, Ronny said:

I hope this is the right thread.

So to counter ERA, then HEAT warhead often have an additional tandem charge so either penetrate the ERA or detonate ERA tiles.

But what is there any way for HEAT warhead to counter chain and cage armor? 

For example: what happened if 

This

 

hit something like this? 

 

 

For the sake of discussion, let assume the missile hit the tank where there is a cage or chain cover it 

 

   Missiles usually are heavier than RPGs and can push through chains before detonating. If they detonate, their warheads are also tend to be heavier and have more punch, so chains have low (or any at all) effect on ATGMs.

   In case of cages situation is not too different for ATGMs. RPGs that counter cages exists for long time - for example late Soviet RPGs (forgot which model exactly got it first) have inertial fuze that actives in moment when rocket is slowed down by obsticle, negotiating effect of cage armor (catching RPG round with nose fuze not touching anything and leaving RPG unexploded, happens in ~50% chance IIRC).

   In case shown on pics T-72 Adra will be most likely penetrated by that ATGM, as this protection kit have noticeable positive effect only against RPGs.

[Ronny]

26 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

 

 

   In case of cages situation is not too different for ATGMs. RPGs that counter cages exists for long time - for example late Soviet RPGs (forgot which model exactly got it first) have inertial fuze that actives in moment when rocket is slowed down by obsticle, negotiating effect of cage armor (catching RPG round with nose fuze not touching anything and leaving RPG unexploded, happens in ~50% chance IIRC).

 

Wait a second,

I thought the purpose of the cage and chain armor is to detonate HEAT warhead early so they can't form a proper shaped jet and thus reduce their penetration? 

how can the chain catch RPG round?

[N-L-M]

24 minutes ago, Ronny said:

I thought the purpose of the cage and chain armor is to detonate HEAT warhead early

Nope. The cage neutralizes the piezo fuze of RPGs by shorting the inner cone and the outer cone (vua crushing the outer inwards). Missiles with full width fuzes will detonate, and while the jet may suffer a bit from the increased standoff it's still gonna function.

For example, the OG TOW warhead, which as you can see has a full width crush fuze. And has terrible built in standoff, so a cage would likely improve its performance.

[Ronny]

8 hours ago, N-L-M said:

Nope. The cage neutralizes the piezo fuze of RPGs by shorting the inner cone and the outer cone (vua crushing the outer inwards). Missiles with full width fuzes will detonate, and while the jet may suffer a bit from the increased standoff it's still gonna function.

For example, the OG TOW warhead, which as you can see has a full width crush fuze. And has terrible built in standoff, so a cage would likely improve its performance.

How about the chains armor? 

[N-L-M]

1 hour ago, Ronny said:

How about the chains armor? 

Exactly the same.