TokyoMorose Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 On 3/2/2022 at 5:29 PM, Ramlaen said: GDLS isn't going to win because their lobbyists are better, they didn't have to "redo" the Stryker and the issues with the Ajax (made by GDUK) are irrelevant. Come on Ram, the current Stryker DVH shares basically zero parts with Stryker as originally delivered. The suspension was modified several times and eventually outright replaced, the hull has been modified to the extent of very limited parts compatibility, the powerpack was entirely replaced... The "regular" stryker to DVH conversion involves taking existing hulls, stripping them basically to the hull itself, modifying the hull to the new spec - and then bolting on the new 6.0 running gear, installing the new powerpack, and all that jazz. If that's not a "redo" of the thing, than I don't know what is. Virtually nothing is left from the vehicle as originally ordered and designed. Furthermore, while yes GDUK is doing the work on Ajax - it was the GD global leadership who decided to make the proposal based on ASCOD 2 and the existing ASCOD 2 Spanish supply chain, which is what has caused all of the Ajax's issues; it's not poor work at GDUK that is the problem. There's even statements in the parliamentary questioning that GD as a whole has been spending money sent to them as part of the Ajax program on the global ASCOD 2 portfolio. Spoiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 18 hours ago, TokyoMorose said: Come on Ram, the current Stryker DVH shares basically zero parts with Stryker as originally delivered. The suspension was modified several times and eventually outright replaced, the hull has been modified to the extent of very limited parts compatibility, the powerpack was entirely replaced... The "regular" stryker to DVH conversion involves taking existing hulls, stripping them basically to the hull itself, modifying the hull to the new spec - and then bolting on the new 6.0 running gear, installing the new powerpack, and all that jazz. If that's not a "redo" of the thing, than I don't know what is. Virtually nothing is left from the vehicle as originally ordered and designed. The current A1 Stryker is also a 20 year newer vehicle without the requirement restraints of the original. Lincoln axe'ing old vehicles to keep them up to date is common. Look at how little of the original Abrams or M109 remain, is the SEPv3 a "redo" of the M1? Quote Furthermore, while yes GDUK is doing the work on Ajax - it was the GD global leadership who decided to make the proposal based on ASCOD 2 and the existing ASCOD 2 Spanish supply chain, which is what has caused all of the Ajax's issues; it's not poor work at GDUK that is the problem. There's even statements in the parliamentary questioning that GD as a whole has been spending money sent to them as part of the Ajax program on the global ASCOD 2 portfolio. Have either Austria or Spain encountered the issues the British have with their vehicles? Lord_James 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 ASCOD and ASCOD-2 are far from being the same. TokyoMorose 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N-L-M Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 I've got to agree with Ram on the subject of the Strykers. The DVH A1 is basically an all new vehicle, but that's the Army realizing that the requirements they set and therefore the vehicle they got isn't what they actually needed, not the vehicle as delivered being a shitshow and not working. Ramlaen, Dragonstriker and Lord_James 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 https://www.defensenews.com/land/2022/03/11/us-army-to-award-production-contract-for-light-tank-this-summer/ Dean said the source-selection phase of the competition is ongoing and the program is on schedule for a production decision in the third quarter of fiscal 2022 — around June. The plan is to equip the first unit with MPF by the fourth quarter of FY25. The Army plans to initially build 26 vehicles, with an option to build 28 more and retrofit eight prototypes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TokyoMorose Posted March 13, 2022 Report Share Posted March 13, 2022 On 3/8/2022 at 5:27 PM, Ramlaen said: Have either Austria or Spain encountered the issues the British have with their vehicles? Well no, but Austria and Spain only operate ASCOD Gen 1s (until Castor enters service in Spain) - which were entirely designed by Steyr before GDLS took them over. It's a very solid, if conventional late cold war IFV. But ASCOD 2 is a near-clean sheet design, and not only has Ajax been a mess but so has VCZAP Castor - the new engineering vehicle the Spanish are buying based on ASCOD 2. Castor is the project parliamentary questions brought up GDLS (as a whole) had used money on that was disbursed as part of the Ajax payments. The track record with ASCOD 2 for both clients deep into the contracts for them (UK's Ajax family and Spain's Castor) have been a complete mess. Meanwhile, the Sabrah LT for the Philippines on ASCOD 2 chassis has also slipped a few months. It was supposed to be December '21 first deliveries, but now it's "2022" (which we are a quarter through almost) for them. They aren't even full up ASCOD 2s, but just the chassis with turret and outfitting by Elbit. Something stinks at ASCOD 2 land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted March 13, 2022 Report Share Posted March 13, 2022 An issue in this discussion is the fact, that there is not clean definition of "ASCOD 2". The name was already used by Steyr-Daimler-Puch Spezialfahrzeug to distinguish between the Pizarro (ASCOD 1) and the Ulan (ASCOD 2). Later it was used for the ASCOD 35 in comparison to the Pizarro and Ulan. At the same time the Pizarro Fase 2 has been described as ASCOD 2 (specifically by British journalists saying that the Ajax was based on the Pizarro Fase 2), despite being much closer related to the Ulan than the ASCOD 35. Ramlaen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FORMATOSE Posted March 13, 2022 Report Share Posted March 13, 2022 On 3/8/2022 at 7:42 AM, TokyoMorose said: Come on Ram, the current Stryker DVH shares basically zero parts with Stryker as originally delivered. The suspension was modified several times and eventually outright replaced, the hull has been modified to the extent of very limited parts compatibility, the powerpack was entirely replaced... The "regular" stryker to DVH conversion involves taking existing hulls, stripping them basically to the hull itself, modifying the hull to the new spec - and then bolting on the new 6.0 running gear, installing the new powerpack, and all that jazz. If that's not a "redo" of the thing, than I don't know what is. Virtually nothing is left from the vehicle as originally ordered and designed. Hide contents What's the fuel capacity of the Stryker DVH ? Flat bottom Styker only had 200 L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted March 13, 2022 Report Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Sovngard said: Flat bottom Styker only had 200 L. Flat bottom Stryker had 53 gallons fuel capacity, which is roughly 200 litres. On Stryker DVH this was increased to 63 gallons (238 litres). For the sake of comparison: the Boxer has fuel tanks for 530 litres, VBCI has 420 litres fuel capacity, Patria AMV (Rosomak) has 325 litres capacity and Piranha IIIH of the Swiss Army has 320 litres fuel tank capacity. Alzoc and Ramlaen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TokyoMorose Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 On 3/13/2022 at 3:50 AM, SH_MM said: An issue in this discussion is the fact, that there is not clean definition of "ASCOD 2". The name was already used by Steyr-Daimler-Puch Spezialfahrzeug to distinguish between the Pizarro (ASCOD 1) and the Ulan (ASCOD 2). Later it was used for the ASCOD 35 in comparison to the Pizarro and Ulan. At the same time the Pizarro Fase 2 has been described as ASCOD 2 (specifically by British journalists saying that the Ajax was based on the Pizarro Fase 2), despite being much closer related to the Ulan than the ASCOD 35. This is a fair point, all of my use of "ASCOD 2" is for the ASCOD 35 development. I get the feeling the Journalists calling Pizarro P2 ASCOD 2 is just simple mistakes, as Pizarro P2 is literally Ulan but with Spanish fittings and a domestic transmission (SG850). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 2805662 and Clan_Ghost_Bear 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted March 29, 2022 Report Share Posted March 29, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.T Posted March 29, 2022 Report Share Posted March 29, 2022 So this anti idle is basically a stop start system like you have had in civilian cars for about past 15 years. Probably not designed to cut out on every stoplight like civilian editions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan_Ghost_Bear Posted April 7, 2022 Report Share Posted April 7, 2022 Better look at Point Blank's design, from a trade-show model company. https://www.flickr.com/photos/21159426@N05/albums/72177720297935581 Cleb, Lord_James and Ramlaen 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted April 8, 2022 Report Share Posted April 8, 2022 Not very pleasing to look at. The driver has no hatch/vision blocks? There are no headlights? I hope that is a very, very early mock-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarshipDirect Posted April 9, 2022 Report Share Posted April 9, 2022 On 4/7/2022 at 7:23 PM, Clan_Ghost_Bear said: Better look at Point Blank's design, from a trade-show model company. https://www.flickr.com/photos/21159426@N05/albums/72177720297935581 It’s a great looking vehicle with potential. Unfortunately the defense giants will secure the contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarshipDirect Posted April 9, 2022 Report Share Posted April 9, 2022 On 4/8/2022 at 1:52 AM, SH_MM said: Not very pleasing to look at. The driver has no hatch/vision blocks? There are no headlights? I hope that is a very, very early mock-up. Army is all about cameras these days. I wouldn’t be surprised if periscopes become a thing of the past. No need for headlamps with thermal cameras. Headlights are never used in combat anyways. Looks like it has reflection lights integrated in the hull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scolopax Posted April 9, 2022 Report Share Posted April 9, 2022 Looks very similar to the Polish Borsuk. Ramlaen and Stimpy75 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted April 11, 2022 Report Share Posted April 11, 2022 On 4/9/2022 at 5:10 PM, StarshipDirect said: Army is all about cameras these days. I wouldn’t be surprised if periscopes become a thing of the past There are no cameras mounted to the hull of the model.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan_Ghost_Bear Posted April 11, 2022 Report Share Posted April 11, 2022 Likely just for show, but still eyebrow-raising. Cleb, Ramlaen and Laviduce 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted April 11, 2022 Report Share Posted April 11, 2022 Cleb, Laviduce and Clan_Ghost_Bear 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarshipDirect Posted April 12, 2022 Report Share Posted April 12, 2022 18 hours ago, SH_MM said: There are no cameras mounted to the hull of the model.... There obviously will be on a working prototype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan_Ghost_Bear Posted April 18, 2022 Report Share Posted April 18, 2022 https://www.usarmygvsc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/2022-Industry-Days-MS2_v2-OPSEC.pdf Jackvony, Stimpy75, Alzoc and 6 others 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted April 18, 2022 Report Share Posted April 18, 2022 Clan_Ghost_Bear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted April 19, 2022 Report Share Posted April 19, 2022 11 hours ago, Clan_Ghost_Bear said: https://www.usarmygvsc.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/2022-Industry-Days-MS2_v2-OPSEC.pdf https://www.usarmygvsc.com/2022-gvsc-industry-day-briefings/ Lord_James, Clan_Ghost_Bear and Laviduce 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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