Jump to content
Sturgeon's House

United States Gun Control Megathread


Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, Alzoc said:

 

Don't get me wrong I have nothing against the US or the US government.

And I reckon that we share common value.

 

Simply that I'm not sure that our interest will remain aligned forever.

If you have nothing against the U.S. government, and how it behaves, then why comment on U.S. gun control policy?

Because the very proposal of it,  "gun control", is patently unconstitutional.

 

Cause I sure the hell have a bunch of issues with the sons of bitches.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 985
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

When students of Marjory Stoneman Douglas return to class after spring break next week, they'll be required to carry clear backpacks. The move is meant to ramp up security measures after last mon

We may (very soon) get Constitutional carry in Kentucky. Keeping my fingers crossed.   ETA- IT PASSED.  Kentucky has Constitutional carry.   60 "yes" , while 37 found freedom "scar

Pictured, the Union being awesome:

5 minutes ago, Alzoc said:

 

Don't get me wrong I have nothing against the US or the US government.

And I reckon that we share common value.

 

Simply that I'm not sure that our interest will remain aligned forever.

 

I doubt France will have any choice in the matter for a very long time. The US plays coy with its empire, but it definitely exists, and you're within it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

 

That may be true, but I can't help but feel like the EU is exactly the wrong way to make that happen. If it were up to me, I'd probably just formalize the relationship between the US, NATO, and our other client nations, and incorporate them as the 51st-90somethingth states in the Union.

 

That's assuming that we manage to get past our national various national prides.

We already have a hard time doing so amongst ourselves^^

 

In itself your solution is a way to achieve stability, and it may very well happen (can't predict the future) but depending on the way it is done, the context, I fear it would fuel anti-Americanism to a level never reached before effectively turning the entire world against the US, and that would be a bad ending for everybody.

 

I'm no sociologist but the pattern I see is that we tend to regroup in larger organization when the current ones lack the critical size to address the threat.

And maybe there will be a common threat (natural, another political bloc, aliens whatever) that will lead us to unify against that threat. But I fear that we are only capable to form groups in opposition to something.

 

26 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

doubt France will have any choice in the matter for a very long time. The US plays coy with its empire, but it definitely exists, and you're within it.

 

That's basically the whole reason why we kept a completely independent nuclear deterrence (unlike the UK) and intend to keep modernizing  it^^

 

Edit: Not that it is aimed particularly at the US but rather at any State that would prove to be an existential threat to us or our interests, whoever it may be^^

 

We know we're weak and that we can't stand on the same level than superpowers on a conventional fight.

That's the whole point of nuclear deterrence and the reason why the former president Hollande stated that we would use our nuclear weapons in case of the aggression of another European Nation.

Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

 

You realize the only reason you guys have stability is because the US hovers over you, right?

Like OF COURSE if there were a major coup or whatever, US troops would be deployed to stabilize your country. Everybody knows it, so they don't try to pull those kinds of shenanigans.

Now, what's stabilizing the US?

No offence, but the US has caused more stability issues for Norway than stabilizing. 

-Sabotaging early oil industry to make us rely on the US.
-Forcing us to give up our cooperation with the Soviet Union.
-Making us a front line country for a potential WWIII.

-Breaking up cooperation with other Nordic countries.

-Spying on Norwegian citizen.

-Numerous politically forced military acquisitions. 

-Destabilizing countries which cause mass immigration to Europe and later the migrant crisis. 

-Oil crisis. 

-Neo-Marxism. 

 

Make no mistake, the US military presence is a huge deterrence, but it also comes with costs. And it is for the most part a self-created issue. 
We stabilize the US with very favorable trade deals, like the rest of Europe. If Europe turned it's back on the US, it would cause a major blow to the US. 
This is why we cooperate, for a better future. But all countries, logically, will always serve their own interests first. 

 

I don't have much fate in the EU though, reminds me a lot of the HRE, just less democratic. 

 

When it comes to gun control, I think the US should continue what it is doing, maybe reverse some of the dumb laws and try to refine the license process. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Xoon said:

 

When it comes to gun control, I think the US should continue what it is doing, maybe reverse some of the dumb laws and try to refine the license process. 

 

License Process...

LICENSE PROCESS...

 

Take a wild guess how many licenses/permits/etc.  I have for my small collection of arms..

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Xoon said:

No offence, but the US has caused more stability issues for Norway than stabilizing. 

-Sabotaging early oil industry to make us rely on the US.
-Forcing us to give up our cooperation with the Soviet Union.
-Making us a front line country for a potential WWIII.

-Breaking up cooperation with other Nordic countries.

-Spying on Norwegian citizen.

-Numerous politically forced military acquisitions. 

-Destabilizing countries which cause mass immigration to Europe and later the migrant crisis. 

-Oil crisis. 

-Neo-Marxism. 

 

Make no mistake, the US military presence is a huge deterrence, but it also comes with costs. And it is for the most part a self-created issue. 
We stabilize the US with very favorable trade deals, like the rest of Europe. If Europe turned it's back on the US, it would cause a major blow to the US. 
This is why we cooperate, for a better future. But all countries, logically, will always serve their own interests first. 

 

I don't have much fate in the EU though, reminds me a lot of the HRE, just less democratic. 

 

When it comes to gun control, I think the US should continue what it is doing, maybe reverse some of the dumb laws and try to refine the license process. 

 

Yeah, but a significant portion of your armed forces are commanded by a penguin.

 

Nils_Olav_inspects_the_Kings_Guard_of_No

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sturgeon said:

 

Yes, they are. But that does not change the fact that innocents (criminals or no) get victimized all the time, and need to protect themselves.

 

Well, what I was trying to get at and couldn't because I was thumbing away on my potato of an iphone while in the cold, is that the issue of "gun violence" in the United States is not a single homogeneous problem but several different ones.

 

We all know that the majority of firearms deaths are by suicide which is its own problem and - to me - doesn't "count" when we're discussing the topic and is rather a mental health issue. And people wanting to off themselves can and do by a variety of other means.

 

And then we have an issue of criminal-on-criminal homicide violence which although it's a deplorable statistic, is one that quite frankly I don't see society as a whole really giving a jolly god damn about since it rarely even makes the news. 

 

And then we have criminal-on-innocent violence which in itself is a multi-dimensional topic. Random criminals killing innocents in robberies, school shootings, drive-by shootings, etc versus more of a domestic violence situation where the perpetrator is known by the victim.

 

And then there is police-on-criminal fatalities which generally (but not entirely) are regarded as "good kills".

 

And finally innocent-versus-criminal justifiable homicides which are also retarded as "good kills".

 

And I guess additionally there are firearms "accidents" or negligent discharges, although I believe the rate of accidental death by firearm is on the decline given better education and firearms handling awareness (and other factors like less people hunting and getting plugged in a hunting accident). 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is why we roll our collective eyes when it comes to gun control bills. 

 

A Democrat in Minnesota (a state in the US) has released a gun bill into their legislature.

 

This is in response to the recent shooting in Florida. Those states are over 1000 miles away, fyi.

 

Here's the high points.

 

Quote

Rep. Linda Slocum has introduced HF3022 - her gun ban bill along with 11 DFL co-sponsors from across the metro.

Here's what's in it:
* 2 day waiting period on all firearm transactions
* Total ban on all private sales and transfers, including for inheritance, family, curio & relics, and antique firearms
* Complete registration of all firearms
* Bans all "assault weapons", bump stocks, and large capacity magazines
* Makes suppressors illegal again - possession is a felony
* Requires all ammunition to be purchased in-person from a dealer - all ammunition sales will be tracked and registered.
* Prohibits persons delinquent in paying child support from possessing firearms

Current owners of "assault weapons" may keep them if they are registered and stored in line with newly defined local regulations - and inspected annually by the police.

 

2 day waiting period on all firearm transactions, because these idiots still believe that mass shootings are acts of passion. 

 

Total ban on private sales, including inheritance, family, C&R, antiques, etc. So tell me, how will you enforce this? Confiscation at someone's funeral?

 

Registration of firearms. Literally straight out of a despot's playbook. 

 

Bans something called an "Assault Weapon", which will be defined by the Democrats. 

 

Felony to possess a fucking piece of baffled metal. Oil filter owners beware!

 

Bans all ammo purchases online. Must buy ammo in person, and tracked and "registered" however the fuck that works. The intricacies of this one blow my mind. 

 

Delinquent in paying child support from possessing a firearm. Really? Who made you put THAT into the bill? 

 

Storage laws, right out of the UK playbook. 

 

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.php?number=HF3022&version=latest&session=90&session_number=0&session_year=2017

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect said:

This is why we roll our collective eyes when it comes to gun control bills. 

 

A Democrat in Minnesota (a state in the US) has released a gun bill into their legislature.

 

This is in response to the recent shooting in Florida. Those states are over 1000 miles away, fyi.

 

Here's the high points.

 

 

2 day waiting period on all firearm transactions, because these idiots still believe that mass shootings are acts of passion. 

 

Total ban on private sales, including inheritance, family, C&R, antiques, etc. So tell me, how will you enforce this? Confiscation at someone's funeral?

 

Registration of firearms. Literally straight out of a despot's playbook. 

 

Bans something called an "Assault Weapon", which will be defined by the Democrats. 

 

Felony to possess a fucking piece of baffled metal. Oil filter owners beware!

 

Bans all ammo purchases online. Must buy ammo in person, and tracked and "registered" however the fuck that works. The intricacies of this one blow my mind. 

 

Delinquent in paying child support from possessing a firearm. Really? Who made you put THAT into the bill? 

 

Storage laws, right out of the UK playbook. 

 

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.php?number=HF3022&version=latest&session=90&session_number=0&session_year=2017

I've made my own primers and propellant.  Fuck them.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Meplat said:

I've made my own primers and propellant.  Fuck them.  

I would honestly be surprised if they included ammunition components. 

 

Why don't gun laws work, you non-US Sturgeon's House people ask? Because they are written by people clueless about guns in the first place. 

 

Imagine trying to write a training manual on figure skating, but you've never figure skated in your life. In fact, you've only ever seen it on television. 

 

That's how these gun control advocates act and write. But it doesn't stop them. 

 

Perfect example? I was shooting IPSC, a pistol shooting competition, on my own by the time I was 19 years old. 

 

But you have to be 21 to buy pistol ammunition. How did I do it? 

 

You only have to be 18 years old to buy powder and primers. You don't have to be any age to buy brass, bullets, a reloading press, etc. 

 

I was cranking out 100 rounds of 9mm a night in less than an hour.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect said:

I would honestly be surprised if they included ammunition components. 

 

Why don't gun laws work, you non-US Sturgeon's House people ask? Because they are written by people clueless about guns in the first place. 

 

Imagine trying to write a training manual on figure skating, but you've never figure skated in your life. In fact, you've only ever seen it on television. 

 

That's how these gun control advocates act and write. But it doesn't stop them. 

 

Perfect example? I was shooting IPSC, a pistol shooting competition, on my own by the time I was 19 years old. 

 

But you have to be 21 to buy pistol ammunition. How did I do it? 

 

You only have to be 18 years old to buy powder and primers. You don't have to be any age to buy brass, bullets, a reloading press, etc. 

 

I was cranking out 100 rounds of 9mm a night in less than an hour.

You'd need to make more than 100RPH if shit went pear shaped.  You have no idea how fast I can make a STEN. 

 

ETA- What "they" need to worry about is if I decide to dabble in artillery. or Rocketry. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect said:

On my turret press while casually watching stupid videos on my laptop, I'll say it's pretty good! haha. 

 

I made a fully functional STEN in a bit under one hour.  Excluding magazine and rifled barrel. 

 

The PKM challenge was really fun, and made me love the design. 

I kind of miss doing that kind of work, but I realize that all I did will never mean anything in a normal shop environment, and all I did will mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. 

So now I'm semi-retired. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

 

Crowder is one of the people I'd meet at the range, but never let them see my home.  (Though in his defense, I am not the most friendly of persons when approached unnanounced.  Expect me ti be CLOSELY studying the sod if someone I do not know approaches.)

Link to post
Share on other sites

What is particularly frustrating is that the United States is absolutely swimming in regulations regarding the ownership, use, manufacture, sale, and distribution of firearms.

 

Looking through my state's RCWs, there are roughly 62 different sections directly dealing with who can own a gun, where they can carry it, and so forth.

 

http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41

 

Spoiler

Chapter 9.41 RCW

FIREARMS AND DANGEROUS WEAPONS

Sections
   
Terms defined.
Unlawful possession of firearmsOwnership, possession by certain personsRestoration of right to possessPenalties.
ChildrenPermissible firearm possession.
Possession by offenders.
Restoration of possession rights.
Carrying firearms.
Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.
Correctional employeesEffect of exemption from firearms restrictionsLiability limited.
Concealed pistol licenseApplicationFeeRenewal.
Concealed pistol licenseReciprocity.
Concealed pistol licenseRevocation.
Delivery to ineligible persons.
Dealer deliveries regulatedHold on delivery.
Licensed dealer deliveriesBackground checks.
Waiver of confidentiality.
Supplying information on persons purchasing pistols or applying for concealed pistol licenses.
Officials and agenciesImmunity, writ of mandamus.
Forfeiture of firearmsDispositionConfiscation.
Dealer licensing and registration required.
Dealer's licenses, by whom granted, conditions, feesEmployees, fingerprinting and background checksWholesale sales exceptedPermits prohibited.
Firearm sales or transfersBackground checksRequirementsExceptions.
Firearm sales or transfersDenial of application reportDealer's duties.
PenaltiesViolations of RCW 9.41.113.
Firearms as loan security.
Out-of-state purchasing.
Purchasing by nonresidents.
Recordkeeping requirements.
Verification of licenses and registrationNotice to federal government.
Department of licensing, authority to adopt rulesReporting of violationsAuthority to revoke licenses.
Alteration of identifying marksExceptions.
Alien possession of firearmsRequirementsPenalty.
Alien possession of firearmsAlien firearm licensePolitical subdivisions may not modify requirementsPenalty for false statement.
Alien possession of firearmsPossession without licenseConditions.
Coyote getters.
Unlawful firearmsExceptions.
Unlawful firearms and parts contraband.
Use of machine gun in felonyPenalty.
Aiming or discharging firearms, dangerous weapons.
Possession of pistol by person from eighteen to twenty-one.
Dangerous weaponsPenalty.
Dangerous weaponsApplication of restrictions to law enforcement, firefighting, rescue, and military personnel.
Dangerous exhibitions.
Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harmUnlawful carrying or handlingPenaltyExceptions.
Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilitiesPenaltyExceptions.
State preemption.
Weapons prohibited in certain placesLocal laws and ordinancesExceptionsPenalty.
Information pamphlet.
Fireworks.
Felony firearm offendersDetermination of registration.
Duty to registerRequirements.
Failure to register as felony firearm offender.
Return of privately owned firearm by law enforcement agencyNotification to family or household memberExceptionExemption from public disclosureCivil liabilityLiability for request based on false information.
Return of privately owned firearm by law enforcement agencyDutiesNoticeException.
Surrender of weapons or licensesProhibition on future possession or licensing.
Proof of surrender and receipt pattern formDeclaration of nonsurrender pattern formAdministrative office of the courts to develop.
Proof of surrender and receipt form, declaration of nonsurrender formRequirement to file with clerk of the court.
Penalty.
NOTES:
Carrying loaded rifle or shotgun in vehicle: RCW 77.15.460.
Explosives: Chapter 70.74 RCW.
Possessing a stolen firearm: RCW 9A.56.310.
Shooting firearm from, across, or along public highway: RCW 77.15.460.
Theft of a firearm: RCW 9A.56.300.

 

And this list of laws from Washington state is subtly different from those of the 49 other states in our Republic, the District of Columbia, and laws in place in US territories such as Guam and Puerto Rico. And these laws are subtly different than federal regulations and interpretations of said statutes. To be an informed gun owner in America practically means you have to be an amateur firearms attorney. Or it means you have to be a scofflaw and take your chances.

 

And these are laws put in place to regulate a segment of the American public (gun owners) who are to the 99th percentile, law abiding citizens who vote, pay taxes, have jobs, vote, salute the flag, and many of whom have served in the military, law enforcement, or are fire fighters and first responders. Particularly when WE aren't the ones committing the preponderance of crimes or murders in America.

 

According to this organization, in 2014, 54 percent of US counties had ZERO murders whatsoever.

 

https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/number-murders-county-54-us-counties-2014-zero-murders-69-1-murder/

 

The map looks like this with the counties having the most murders a deeper red.

 

Map-US-Murder-Fixed.jpg

During the 2016 Presidential election, this is the breakdown per county of people who voted for Donald Trump (perceived as pro-2nd Amendment) in red versus Hillary Clinton (perceived as anti-2nd Amendment) in blue. You'll notice the correlation of counties that voted for Clinton having a disproportionately higher murder rate than those who supported Trump.

 

2016nationwidecountymapshadedbyvoteshare

 

 

 

There's a problem in America but it ain't guns.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

FWIW some of my ancestors were freed slaves. They still fought for the confederacy.

If I ever get the chance I will take pics. Not that they will be  accepted, just that they will be "there".

In the ether.  Likely forgotten, but still there.

If i measure to a third of their greatness, I'll be happy.

They were truly "Americans",

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Meplat said:

FWIW some of my ancestors were freed slaves. They still fought for the confederacy.

If I ever get the chance I will take pics. Not that they will be  accepted, just that they will be "there".

In the ether.  Likely forgotten, but still there.

If i measure to a third of their greatness, I'll be happy.

They were truly "Americans",

 

Meplat, I love you to death and I don't want to ever do anything that would suggest that you should curtail your drunk posting...

but how drunk are you right now?

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Collimatrix said:

 

Meplat, I love you to death and I don't want to ever do anything that would suggest that you should curtail your drunk posting...

but how drunk are you right now?

Not very, why?

 

*Booting half right rudder and pulling up hard, then  half rolling  on the fucking Boche and giving him a bit of .303"*

 Would you like me to whittle  you a stock for a BREN?

 

*Pitching down and kicking that fucking Griffon for all it has, before dropping flaps, hauling in and hosing that shitlord in the Bf 109*

Really, your concern is noted, but when I'm really reeling, you;'ll  hear the pipes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...