Main Ground Combat System (MGCS) and Euro Main Battle Tank (EMBT)

[Pascal]

55 minutes ago, That_Baka said:

I think thats because ID range can interpreted vaguely.  And offcourse there is the question of the claimed performance like with MILAN maximum perforation in british tests .

Nothing vaguely, recognition range for a tank target in narrow field view is 2,6-2,8 km for Nocturne.

[That_Baka]

1 hour ago, Pascal said:

Nothing vaguely, recognition range for a tank target in narrow field view is 2,6-2,8 km for Nocturne.

Uhh sources? Because all i can find is BTVT which quotes 3km.

[Pascal]

11 hours ago, That_Baka said:

Uhh sources? Because all i can find is BTVT which quotes 3km.

From Otvaga.

[Zadlo]

The latest patent from Rheinmetall - published exactly two weeks ago

 

[alanch90]

Seems that the turret front is much more armored than T-14. Perhaps its justified because of the ammo being in the bustle. As for the autoloader, reminds me a lot of Leclerc but the ammo count (16 rounds) is surprisingly low, that would explain the need for the bustle to be detachable.

[DIADES]

5 hours ago, alanch90 said:

(16 rounds)

Yep, and I assume they are thinking bigger that 120mm

[alanch90]

Indeed, they look like 130mm, look at the length of the case. On the other hand, it's unlikely that they are 140mm since those are two piece.

[Zadlo]

That's 130mm but according to other Rheinmetall's patent the case of 130mm is only longer than one in 120mm, not wider. So it seems that turret without add-on armor could be quite small.

 

3 hours ago, alanch90 said:

On the other hand, it's unlikely that they are 140mm since those are two piece.

 

Nexter has shown turret with 140mm and autoloader in own patent. And it looks like this.

[alanch90]

2 minutes ago, Zadlo said:

That's 130mm but according to other Rheinmetall's patent the case of 130mm is only longer than one in 120mm, not wider.

Yes. We have seen mockups both for 130mm and 140mm, both are as wide as 120mm, but 140mm is like two 120mm cases glued together

 

130mm:

 

140mm:

 

 

8 minutes ago, Zadlo said:

Nexter has shown turret with 140mm and autoloader in own patent. And it looks like this.

What is that monstrosity?!

[Renegade334]

Looks like a flipped-over FASTDRAW. That turret is guaranteed to have fat cheeks...

 

14 hours ago, alanch90 said:

Seems that the turret front is much more armored than T-14. Perhaps its justified because of the ammo being in the bustle. As for the autoloader, reminds me a lot of Leclerc but the ammo count (16 rounds) is surprisingly low, that would explain the need for the bustle to be detachable.

 

The XM91 autoloader on the M1 CATTB had 17 rounds and those were 140mm, though that tank was supposed to have TWO extra carousels (22 rounds, folded) inside the hull for reloads:

 

Spoiler

 

[SH_MM]

[Long_Rodney]

8 minutes ago, SH_MM said:

So is that supposed to be at least a half realistic sketch, or just another futuristic concept art?

[SH_MM]

1 hour ago, Long_Rodney said:

So is that supposed to be at least a half realistic sketch, or just another futuristic concept art?

 

There are patents for this thing, but it might not be directly related to the MGCS (as the MGCS is still in the concept stage, armament, size, crew, etc. all have yet to be decided).

[alanch90]

That's a weird and surprising concept art. Track, sprocket and running wheels are just like the Leo 2, but there are 6 instead of 7 although more separated which would suggest similar vehicle length. The layout sugfgest a forward engine placement (or perhaps is a hybrid electric type, with one engine in the front and the other in the back?), the whole vehicle seems like a leopard 2 driving in reverse. The absence of crew hatches in the front suggest an entrance through the back of the vehicle, ala Merkava. If this is the case, unless the powerpack is super compact (much more than MTU engine used in Leo 2). Its hard to speculate about a big module of passive armor on the front. Its hard to judge where the crew actually sits but they might be just under the turret ring. In fact, only if the engine is of similar dimensions as in the Euro powerpack and the crew is sitting that far back, only then i can imagine a big block of armor between the engine and the crew compartment. And yes, that is some thick side armor right there.

If the layout is as i´m picturing it, then its reasonable that all the ammo be placed in the turret bustle, as in the patents we got a couple of weeks ago. The turret seems to be almost unnaturally flat, perhaps that menas that in order to depress the gun, part of the roof hinges open. I can see a vertical slit halfway to the bustle (in the picture seems near the commanders CITV), perhaps its the for a machinegun? In the hull front i can spot optical devices very similar as those in the turret, might be cameras or laser detectors. As for the main gun itself, it should be a 130mm but doesn´t look like it, it seems too short (if the overall vehicle dimensions are as i imagine) and that muzzle break ...

[Molota_477]

1 hour ago, SH_MM said:

Where's this screenshot from>?

[SH_MM]

12 minutes ago, alanch90 said:

That's a weird and surprising concept art.

 

I think it is most likely a vehicle design based on a reconfigured Lynx KF41 hull. The rear of the hull (which has a ramp in the center and exhaust air-vents on either side) looks almost identical.

 

6 minutes ago, Molota_477 said:

Where's this screenshot from>?

 

Yesterday's capital markets day (i.e. where Rheinmetall presents last years results and forecast for the next year to investors). Unfortunately this year's slides are of poor quality, almost as if someone took screenshots from a low bit-rate stream.

[BaronTibere]

 

https://ir.rheinmetall.com/download/companies/rheinmetall/Presentations/191120_CMD_2019_Unterluess_CEO_online.pdf

[LoooSeR]

   Heh, Andrey's blog have some pics of MGCS

http://btvt.info/7english/mgcs_eng.htm

 

Spoiler

 

[2805662]

On 11/9/2019 at 1:46 AM, Renegade334 said:

Looks like a flipped-over FASTDRAW. That turret is guaranteed to have fat cheeks...

 

 

The XM91 autoloader on the M1 CATTB had 17 rounds and those were 140mm, though that tank was supposed to have TWO extra carousels (22 rounds, folded) inside the hull for reloads:

 

  Hide contents

 

Do you happen to have a squarer/closer image of the top diagram? 

[Renegade334]

Do you mean this?

Spoiler

 

 

[Zadlo]

?????

From Rheinmetall's doc

 

[Clan_Ghost_Bear]

1 hour ago, Zadlo said:

?????

 

 

I think they meant that the CIFS is planned to be finished at the same time as the MGCS.

[Ramlaen]

 

 

[phasers on stun]

EMBT is not MGCS. Given the lack of LeClerc h/w in Europe outside france, and the plethora of L2 hardware in field, who is going to pull the trigger first to take on all that ILS risk ?  Training, modus operandii, logistics, etc etc for EMBT will all be developed on the fly and surely not a good recipe for in field sustainment ?  Bottom line - apart from the few demo systems, is EMBT arriving at an army near you anytime soon ?

 

[Rico]

I don't see a real interest for that.

So far most customers that had Leo2 in service are going for Upgrade to 2A7 or some parts of the upgrade package.

Others that want to get rid of their cold war equipment aim for K2.

France and Britons upgrade their own MBT. 

Nobody seems even a bit interested in the EMBT.