2805662 Posted March 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ramlaen said: Lynx with rubber tracks has evolved into Lynx having vibration issues? Got the cart before the horse. Alleged - yes rumoured - noise, vibration, & unreliability issues during RMA, hence the commonwealth direction to try the Soucy rubber tracks. Ramlaen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIADES Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 9 hours ago, 2805662 said: Military: - Army’s preferred equipment solution was Redback. - Army’s advice to MINDEF was Redback. - MINDEF distrusts ADF leadership (see Brereton Report). - this echoes selection of MRH over Blackhawk. - Army fears an “Australian AJAX” with vibration & reliability issues of Lynx to be resolved. Probably best to caveat your comments with "according to my old mates" or similar. My mates have the reverse story.... 2805662, SH_MM and Clan_Ghost_Bear 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2805662 Posted March 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 hour ago, DIADES said: Probably best to caveat your comments with "according to my old mates" or similar. My mates have the reverse story.... Your mates are saying Redback won? Nice. DrPlop and DIADES 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIADES Posted March 21, 2022 Report Share Posted March 21, 2022 15 hours ago, 2805662 said: our mates are saying Redback won? It is true that not all my mates are the smartest bricks in the barbie - but, none of them are that stupid They are saying that the advice to the Minister was LYNX. Lets leave further discussion till aftet the actual announcement. 2805662 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2805662 Posted March 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2022 8 hours ago, DIADES said: Lets leave further discussion till aftet the actual announcement. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted March 29, 2022 Report Share Posted March 29, 2022 Laviduce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2805662 Posted April 5, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2022 Announcement of the decision kicked into the long grass. Cleb, Clan_Ghost_Bear and Lord_James 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_James Posted April 5, 2022 Report Share Posted April 5, 2022 1 hour ago, 2805662 said: Announcement of the decision kicked into the long grass. This is a good idea: rushing decisions that concern peoples safety (i.e. your defense industry) is irresponsible at best, so this was a good call by whomever made it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2805662 Posted April 5, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2022 Related. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-06/multi-billion-dollar-army-vehicle-project-facing-cutbacks/100968910 DIADES and Ramlaen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIADES Posted April 5, 2022 Report Share Posted April 5, 2022 47 minutes ago, 2805662 said: Related. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-06/multi-billion-dollar-army-vehicle-project-facing-cutbacks/100968910 God - reduced fleet size to save cost. Yeah, nah. Take the fleet down from 450 to 350 and save, I reckon, nothing, All the NRE and support costs stay the same and the unit price willl go up.. As for use Bushamaster to fill some roles..... Really just a clear example of the complete lack of understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2805662 Posted April 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2022 Some more from the Chief of Army about Lance on Boxer: https://asiapacificdefencereporter.com/army-says-boxer-8x8-will-not-be-able-to-fire-guided-missiles/ “It will not have an organic anti-armour weapon – they will be carried by the troops inside to engage those sorts of threats.” On Iron Fist (or any active protection system): ”Another surprise was the revelation that Boxers will not be equipped with an Active Protection System (APS)…Originally the Boxers were to be equipped with the Iron Fist system from Elbit, but Army say that the mission profile for the vehicles means that will no longer required.” This tracks with Boxer shifting from combat reconnaissance vehicle to battlegroup support vehicle. This shift from frontline rearward relates to vehicle performance shortcomings, apparently. Lance also reportedly has issues with toxicity in the turret, something Army last experienced with Scorpion turreted M113s. From the ABC article: “Military insiders claim Rheinmetall's Boxer is experiencing "carbon monoxide toxicity" inside the vehicle, vibration problems for passengers…” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIADES Posted April 6, 2022 Report Share Posted April 6, 2022 27 minutes ago, 2805662 said: Some more from the Chief of Army about Lance on Boxer from the same article: What is not clear is the possibility of retrofitting Spike, or including it on future variants of the turret. It could be that the Chief of the Army was only referring to the first batch of vehicles currently being introduced into service. Block 1 does not have and cannot have SPIKE. These are the first 25 vehicles (13 turreted) entering service now primarily for training purposes. Block2 does have SPIKE but not every turreted car (fitted for not with) - purely cost related. Block 2 covers the body of the fleet. LANCE for Phase 3 (LYNX) which is the topic of this thread, does have SPIKE and APS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2805662 Posted April 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2022 4 minutes ago, DIADES said: from the same article: What is not clear is the possibility of retrofitting Spike, or including it on future variants of the turret. It could be that the Chief of the Army was only referring to the first batch of vehicles currently being introduced into service. Block 1 does not have and cannot have SPIKE. These are the first 25 vehicles (13 turreted) entering service now primarily for training purposes. Block2 does have SPIKE but not every turreted car (fitted for not with) - purely cost related. Block 2 covers the body of the fleet. LANCE for Phase 3 (LYNX) which is the topic of this thread, does have SPIKE and APS. Tracking the topic - I started the thread in 2018! If the Chief is saying that it’s two years until Boxer gets Spike - if at all - then turreted Block 2 Boxers won’t be seen until 2024/25 at the earliest. The Block 1 Boxers are back at Redbank as of last month. No idea what they’re in for, or for how long. An apparent side effect of using a gas-operated, medium calibre gun in a crewed turret, rather than an externally-powered chain gun, Is toxicity in the crew module. This is further exacerbated by a high(er than necessary) rate of fire. Will be interesting if this problem persists into Lance 2.0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIADES Posted April 6, 2022 Report Share Posted April 6, 2022 6 minutes ago, 2805662 said: The Block 1 Boxers are back at Redbank as of last month. No idea what they’re in for, or for how long. No "they" were not. There are 13 of the buggers 2 were in but I don't know what for. Block 2 is on schedule as far as I know. The gun is fully external to the turret crew space. The gas issue was to do with the NBC system and hatch seals not allowing full over pressure - now resolved. It has nothing what so ever to do with gas or chain operated. Both types make the same volume of gas ex-propellant. The real issue is if the weapon breeech etc is in the crew space or not. LANCE weapon is not in the turret crew space. 2805662 and Dragonstriker 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIADES Posted April 7, 2022 Report Share Posted April 7, 2022 On 4/6/2022 at 5:02 PM, DIADES said: t could be that the Chief of the Army was only referring to the first batch of vehicles currently being introduced into service. and that is exactly correct. As Head Armoured Vehicle Division MAJGEN Jason Blain made clear during Senate Estimates yesterday: "We never scoped to have any tank guided munitions fitted to our Block 1 vehicles. Again, in transition, as we move into Block 2, there is in the project scope and a plan to integrate an anti-tank guided munition system onto the Block 2 vehicle. We will have ATGMs, those missile systems, on our Block 2 fleet. It was never the case we'd have them on our Block 1 vehicles." Clan_Ghost_Bear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted April 8, 2022 Report Share Posted April 8, 2022 The longer this goes on, the less that RHM is the default choice. I can't predict which way the May elections will go, but if labor wins, they are likely to be even more penny wise, pound foolish than the liberals (conservative). DejaVu?, after the floods of 2011, the Julia Gillard government cancelled the award for the Korean K9, in what had effectively been a competition between the German PzH 2000 and the Korean K9. which we would later buy a decade later for a much higher price as the earlier price was a special deal for breaking into the international market... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted April 8, 2022 Report Share Posted April 8, 2022 Laviduce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesh Posted May 2, 2022 Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 The army preferred the redback based on performance, but the minister for defence wanted the lynx because it was in or near his electorate. I have red this on a few defence reporting sites and was just wondering if anyone can confirm if there was any truth to this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted May 3, 2022 Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 On 5/2/2022 at 3:52 PM, Jesh said: The army preferred the redback based on performance, but the minister for defence wanted the lynx because it was in or near his electorate. I have red this on a few defence reporting sites and was just wondering if anyone can confirm if there was any truth to this? Rheinmetall is basically in Qld's labor premier's electorate, and has been keenly supported by the Qld premier, as a Qld I have had the impression that Dan Andrews ignored Redback until very recently whereas, Annastacia has strongly supported the Lynx the entire bid. Fed minister of defense is indeed about 2 electorates away from Rheinmetall, so ready commuting distance, but nothing too special. To tour the facility would be easy for him, so Lynx is far more real for his reality. The minister of defense could not have avoided noticing the difference in support from the respective state governments for Lynx and Redback. And would be far more confident that Qld would deliver, closer to on time, and on budget than Vic. But the bigger issue is brand. Rheinmetall is strong brand, who is Hanwha? Having said that, by the numbers Redback should have superior ride (rubber band tracks have about double the tension as steel segment tracks, extra road wheel, wider stance, more depth due to suspension not having torsion bars reducing space), so anyone going for ride will immediately prefer redback, Ceteris paribus Dragonstriker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted May 6, 2022 Report Share Posted May 6, 2022 On 4/5/2022 at 3:47 AM, 2805662 said: Announcement of the decision kicked into the long grass. According to Rheinmetall, the decision will be made in September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N-L-M Posted May 6, 2022 Report Share Posted May 6, 2022 Based on those numbers, the per unit cost of the vehicle is around $10 mil per. That presumably includes ILS and training, but it's still quite high for a troop carrier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2805662 Posted May 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2022 5 minutes ago, N-L-M said: Based on those numbers, the per unit cost of the vehicle is around $10 mil per. That presumably includes ILS and training, but it's still quite high for a troop carrier. €10 million = $AUD14.8 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N-L-M Posted May 6, 2022 Report Share Posted May 6, 2022 41 minutes ago, 2805662 said: €10 million = $AUD14.8 million I was talking USD, should have perhaps made that clearer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2805662 Posted May 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2022 1 hour ago, N-L-M said: I was talking USD, should have perhaps made that clearer. Yep, I was referring to the Rheinmetall slide at €4bn. Interestingly, the Phase 2 cam tract was the largest in Rheinmetall’s history. Should they take Phase 3, it would supplant that record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted May 23, 2022 Report Share Posted May 23, 2022 It is expected that Richard Marles from Geelong will become the new defense minister in Australia. (incoming Labor government) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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