Britons are in trouble

[2805662]

These pics I took at Land Forces 18 may be of use:

 

 

 

 

 

[DIADES]

1 hour ago, 2805662 said:

These pics I took at Land Forces 18 may be of use:

 

 

 

 

 

Good pics - sure as hell look like windows in the armour to me.

[Ramlaen]

This promo video for the British army includes shots of Rheinmetall's Challenger 2.

 

 

[Clan_Ghost_Bear]

UK is considering a new SPG:

https://www.janes.com/article/87623/uk-releases-rfi-for-new-self-propelled-howitzer'

 

Boxer with Donar turret, maybe?

[Mighty_Zuk]

5 hours ago, Clan_Ghost_Bear said:

UK is considering a new SPG:

https://www.janes.com/article/87623/uk-releases-rfi-for-new-self-propelled-howitzer'

 

Boxer with Donar turret, maybe?

Maybe, but unlikely. Rheinmetall has pushed this concept for a while, but there are other options as well. For example, a Caesar or ATMOS on a MAN HX truck. I also heard a version of the Archer was offered, although I am not particularly fond of the Archer concept to say the least, as I believe a manual backup is a crucial aspect. 

The AGM is also an option, and here I would like to mention that it's called AGM, not Donar. The Donar is a version mounted on a Bradley platform.

There are 2 main reasons why the option of a Boxer-mounted AGM are less likely:

1. The real power holder in the UK is Rheinmetall. The AGM is a KMW product. What it stood to profit from the Boxer+AGM idea is an additional sale of boxer drive modules. It could profit just as much from any of the other abovementioned options.
2. A truck-based solution, for example the MAN HX, allows for more optimized pressure distribution, and provides more flexibility to install various platform stabilizers. They're also not limited in payload, when compared with a Boxer. They have a few turreted, and a few un-turreted options, for example the Caesar or Brutus not using a turret, or the ATMOS, Archer, and AGM using a turret, with the ATMOS being offered in both configurations actually.

[David Moyes]

The RFI is a formality. AGM on Boxer is the plan. It was one of the reasons why Boxer was selected for MIV. Get as many drive modules as possible then order required mission modules when the money is available.
KMW is working on a remote re-supply module.
The program for a new SPG has been going for a while and had numerous names, at one point it specifically had 'Wheeled' in the title.The Regiments selected are 2 x AS90 and 2 x 105mm in the Armoured and Strike Brigades.

Boxer acquisition is being done through OCCAR so Artec is the prime contractor. KMW already have a manufacturing base in the UK with their ownership of WFEL, hence why Rheinmetall created Joint-Venture with BAE.
Drive module fabrication - WFEL-KMW
Mission module fabrication - Pearson
Final assembly - BAE-Rheinmetall

The requested numbers aren't enough to entirely replace AS90 and a recent BAE bulletin had an article on improving the range of the L15A4 round when used with a 52 calibre barrel as part of a AS90 capability upgrade:
https://t.co/LpopfR4d2H
I wonder if this is an upgrade of the original L31 gun or an entirely new one (like the cancelled Braveheart upgrade)?
BAE owns the M777, it was designed and is manufactured in the UK, a L52 version has been worked on. However Rheinmetall's 155mm L52 is fitted in the Polish Krab SPG that uses the AS90 turret.
Interesting to see if AGM and AS90 will end up with the same gun.
 

On 4/3/2019 at 8:15 AM, Mighty_Zuk said:

I also heard a version of the Archer was offered

 

On 4/3/2019 at 8:15 AM, Mighty_Zuk said:

The Donar is a version mounted on a Bradley platform.

ASCOD
I think the M993 was used early on.

[Voodoo]

So a tracked system is not being considered?

[David Moyes]

57 minutes ago, Voodoo said:

So a tracked system is not being considered?

As far as I know, no.

[David Moyes]

Confirmed that this program will replace AS90:
 

Favours wheels:
 

Magazine: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/792164/April-desider-v2.pdf

[Zadlo]

On 4/3/2019 at 3:33 PM, David Moyes said:

However Rheinmetall's 155mm L52 is fitted in the Polish Krab SPG that uses the AS90 turret.

 

Currently, Rheinmetall has started to be only a subcontractor for 155mm L52 in Krab.

Forgings for barrels still have to be imported from Germany but the final assembly is now made in Poland.

[Serge]

Ah the very beginning of the Krab program, the barrel was French.

[heretic88]

"Suspect the pressure will be on to go for a wheeled solution, given the way the SP artillery market has gone in recent years."

 

Are they going with the herd then? I think this western wheeled artillery concept is a big big mistake. Basically, the problem isnt the wheels. The problem is that they install these artillery systems on low offroad capability trucks. Im a heavy equipment operator, so I saw quite a few trucks stuck in the slightest amount of mud. This is no different. That Archer above on the MAN HX chassis is a disgrace of the original. Maybe its cheaper, but has zero offroad mobility compared to the Volvo chassis.

[Wiedzmin]

[Wiedzmin]

[David Moyes]

[Ramlaen]

 

[LoooSeR]

Yeah, 12 950 tanks, from which ~3000 are in Army.

[2805662]

 

[AssaultPlazma]

On 4/19/2019 at 1:57 PM, LoooSeR said:

Yeah, 12 950 tanks, from which ~3000 are in Army.

 

How many of those 3,000 are considered up to date/modern? 

[Mighty_Zuk]

1 hour ago, AssaultPlazma said:

 

How many of those 3,000 are considered up to date/modern? 

I believe plans were to modernize all of them. But Russia's definition of 'modern' is not a particularly good one. 

It's mostly a "produced after year X is modern, even if shit standard". The T-72 was the first to hit the modernization effort. First batches of T-72B3 were rolled out in 2013, but until 2017 lacked panoramic sights, which has been standard equipment on western tanks for decades.

And apparently thermal imagers aren't even a standard equipment in Russian AFVs yet. That is, not nearly widespread enough yet.

[AssaultPlazma]

4 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

I believe plans were to modernize all of them. But Russia's definition of 'modern' is not a particularly good one. 

It's mostly a "produced after year X is modern, even if shit standard". The T-72 was the first to hit the modernization effort. First batches of T-72B3 were rolled out in 2013, but until 2017 lacked panoramic sights, which has been standard equipment on western tanks for decades.

And apparently thermal imagers aren't even a standard equipment in Russian AFVs yet. That is, not nearly widespread enough yet.

 

 

Thermal Imagers as in thermal's for the gunner sight? 

[LoooSeR]

6 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

I believe plans were to modernize all of them. But Russia's definition of 'modern' is not a particularly good one. 

It's mostly a "produced after year X is modern, even if shit standard". The T-72 was the first to hit the modernization effort. First batches of T-72B3 were rolled out in 2013, but until 2017 lacked panoramic sights, which has been standard equipment on western tanks for decades.

And apparently thermal imagers aren't even a standard equipment in Russian AFVs yet. That is, not nearly widespread enough yet.

Until 2017? What kind of panoramic sight are you talking about?

 

All B3 have Sosna-U with thermal imagers, 90As, BMP-3s and BMD-4s with Sodema sights, 80BVM, soon even BTR-82s will get them. It is not a small number of vehicles.

[Mighty_Zuk]

1 hour ago, LoooSeR said:

Until 2017? What kind of panoramic sight are you talking about?

 

All B3 have Sosna-U with thermal imagers, 90As, BMP-3s and BMD-4s with Sodema sights, 80BVM, soon even BTR-82s will get them. It is not a small number of vehicles.

Don't know its name, but referring to this one:

 

About what vehicles have thermals, maybe I was wrong.

[heretic88]

10 hours ago, AssaultPlazma said:

How many of those 3,000 are considered up to date/modern? 

By world standards, probably not a single one.

Lots of completely obsolete T-72Bs, T-80BVs and some T-80Us.

T-72B3 is end of 80s level. It has lots of problems: 1960s level commander's station (OU-3GK searchlight in 2019? Seriously?), no armor (Kontakt-5 is hopelessly obsolete), no modern communication systems, no navigation systems, huge maintenance problems (doubtful durability of engine, and its change takes half a day), some mobility issues (very slow reverse), inadequate gun, ergonomic problems with using Sosna.

T-80BVM is the same except: It has modern Relikt ERA (so has decent protection at least), reliable engine with good durability,  much easier engine extraction, and no ergonomic problems with using the thermal sight. 

T-90A, same as T-72B3, except it has no ergonomic problems, and has better commander's station (still inadequate, although better than what the Challenger-2 commader has)

So yes, the first tank that will be really modern by western standards, is the T-90M, although it still has the engine problems shared with all recent T-72 variants. Hopefully they start producing it soon.

 

[LoooSeR]

10 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Don't know its name, but referring to this one:

 

Spoiler

 

 

   Your ability to see equipment that tanks don't have is strange. Maybe you can see ghosts of dead people or tanks from the future?

 

 

 

20 hours ago, AssaultPlazma said:

How many of those 3,000 are considered up to date/modern? 

   Here is a list:

 

Quote

The numerical and qualitative composition of the tank forces of Russia (from the most obsolete machines to more advanced):

 

   Most obsolete machines:
T-72A / AV / AK - 150-200 (in the Central Military District and Higher Military Training with replacement by other tanks);
T-72B / B1 / BK / B1K - 1000-1100 (in all districts, they are delivered to the newly formed units, in others they are replaced by T-72B3);
T-72BA - 700 (in all districts, replaced by T-72B3).

 

   Outdated MBTs:
T-80BV - 100-220 (in the Arctic brigades and in VVO, replaced with T-80BVM);
T-80U - 200 (in the Kantemirovskaya division, with subsequent replacement by T-14).

 

   Modern tanks:
T-72B3 - 800 (in all districts, the state of the modernization program to the base model is unknown);
T-80UE-1 - 20 (in Kantemirovskaya division, with subsequent replacement with T-14);
T-80BVM - 30-150 (in the Arctic teams and in the VVO, replace the T-80BV);
T-90A - 200 (in Western and South Military District, replaced with T-72B3 UBKh);
T-72B3 UBKh - 120 (all districts).

Total: 3510-3660 tanks.

   So over a 1000 of those 3500 tanks are "modern", with bulk of them being given to units in Western/S-W part of Russia. Also, there are more T-90As or T-72B3 UBKhs than Challengers 2, kek.