Turkish touch

Lord_James · January 24, 2021

20 hours ago, Serge said:

Leopard 2 upgraded with an Altaÿ turret ?

16 hours ago, Stimpy75 said:

nope, Altay turret, with LEO II 120/44 gun, my 2 cents

could be also LEO II turret....we will know later, not quite sure

Making them look similar/ the same would help with identification and recognition (hopefully less friendly fire), and might help with easing logistics or training between the vehicles.

TWMSR · January 24, 2021

Maybe it is a matter of being prototype - but turrets on both vehicles that were shown are a bit different. Not only armament (gun itself, it`s craddle, mask) but look also at lower edge of turret. Looks like different masking of "core" turret.
We need more better pictures, not just stills from video. Leo 2 turret would need some rework to not only look like Altays, but to be functional (f.e. reposition of sights, slight in case of gunner's, bigger in case of commander's). Sit and wait.

Lord_James · January 24, 2021

3 hours ago, TWMSR said:

Maybe it is a matter of being prototype - but turrets on both vehicles that were shown are a bit different. Not only armament (gun itself, it`s craddle, mask) but look also at lower edge of turret. Looks like different masking of "core" turret.
We need more better pictures, not just stills from video. Leo 2 turret would need some rework to not only look like Altays, but to be functional (f.e. reposition of sights, slight in case of gunner's, bigger in case of commander's). Sit and wait.

I don’t think the point is to “turn the leopard into the Altay”, but instead to use the same equipment and similar armor on both, to bring both to a common standard.

The closest vehicle I can think of that’s comparable would be the French Unic P107s that were modified by the Nazi’s to be like their own Sd.Kfz 251s.

LoooSeR · January 24, 2021

5 hours ago, Lord_James said:

Making them look similar/ the same would help with identification and recognition (hopefully less friendly fire), and might help with easing logistics or training between the vehicles.

I think reason is that Turkish industry have problems producing needed engine for Altay, so it looks like this hybrid is a way to quasi-solve this problem. Use older Leo hulls they actually have to carry new turret with all new equipment.

mr.T · January 24, 2021

Both Koreans and Turks have issues with the engine for the new tank , and it doesnt seem like Ukrainan engine is going to solve turk engine problems,

TokyoMorose · January 25, 2021

6 hours ago, mr.T said:

Both Koreans and Turks have issues with the engine for the new tank , and it doesnt seem like Ukrainan engine is going to solve turk engine problems,

Koreans have long solved their engine issues, and for them the only issue is that the Transmission has a MTBF that's shorter than required.

The Italian engine should be fine enough for Altay.

alanch90 · January 26, 2021

On 1/25/2021 at 3:20 AM, TokyoMorose said:

The Italian engine should be fine enough for Altay.

You mean the one on the Ariete? Or the newer meant to replace it as part of the MLU program?

If you mean the first, then it most likely will have problems in the Altay since the tank is heavier than the Ariete and the engine is less powerful than the MTU. If you mean the second, with 1500 hp, it is still in development phase and by the time its clear for export, the Turks may have made enough progress with their own engine. Either case the most important aspect is not clear which is the political willingness of Italy to defy EU stance on Turkey´s militarism. And right now Italy is not the most stable country in the world politically, to say the least. The Prime Minister just resigned hours ago.

The safest path forward for the Altay program depends on how fast they need to get the tank into production with an interim powerpack. I see two options. The Chinese powerpack used on VT-4, which while underpowered as the Ariete´s, is readily available and surely cheaper and more modern and politically safer at the same time. On the other hand, the Korean Doosan/DST powerpack, which is supposed to be mature enough in the short term, would serve the Altay just as good or even better than MTU/Renk, On the down side, it may be very expensive. But if the development of an indigenous powerpack fails, the Korean solution is the best one.

Stimpy75 · January 26, 2021

TokyoMorose · January 26, 2021

7 hours ago, alanch90 said:

You mean the one on the Ariete? Or the newer meant to replace it as part of the MLU program?

If you mean the first, then it most likely will have problems in the Altay since the tank is heavier than the Ariete and the engine is less powerful than the MTU. If you mean the second, with 1500 hp, it is still in development phase and by the time its clear for export, the Turks may have made enough progress with their own engine. Either case the most important aspect is not clear which is the political willingness of Italy to defy EU stance on Turkey´s militarism. And right now Italy is not the most stable country in the world politically, to say the least. The Prime Minister just resigned hours ago.

The safest path forward for the Altay program depends on how fast they need to get the tank into production with an interim powerpack. I see two options. The Chinese powerpack used on VT-4, which while underpowered as the Ariete´s, is readily available and surely cheaper and more modern and politically safer at the same time. On the other hand, the Korean Doosan/DST powerpack, which is supposed to be mature enough in the short term, would serve the Altay just as good or even better than MTU/Renk, On the down side, it may be very expensive. But if the development of an indigenous powerpack fails, the Korean solution is the best one.

It's the 1600hp variant from Ariete AMV they are getting ahold of. That should work just fine.

Stimpy75 · January 27, 2021

sry to ask where did you get the info of the 1600 hp version Ariete engine....just curious?!

Zadlo · January 27, 2021

23 hours ago, alanch90 said:

You mean the one on the Ariete? Or the newer meant to replace it as part of the MLU program?

The newer is the deep modernization of the older one.

Stimpy75 · January 31, 2021

barbaria · February 7, 2021

Lots of AFV development coming out of Turkey. Apart from the vehicles themselves, they are also focusing on powerpacks with various power outputs. 380hp, 600hp diesel engines are fielded or ready to be used. 360hp, 450hp, 530hp, 630hp and 1000hp engines all from different companies (BMC and Tumosan) are currently being tested with the 1500hp engine going to be ignited for the first time in coming April/May.

If they succeed in achieving all of this, the tank engine market will get another competitor with less stringent user requirements which will make the few companies in this sector at the very least nervous, and at the most force them out of business. *cough... cough.... MTU cough..cough..

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alanch90 · February 8, 2021

1 hour ago, barbaria said:

1500hp engine going to be ignited for the first time in coming April/May.

Any available time frame of when the development of that engine is planned to be finished?

barbaria · February 8, 2021

10 hours ago, alanch90 said:

Any available time frame of when the development of that engine is planned to be finished?

Not that I know of. But looking at the development time that is contracted for the 900-1000hp (UTKU) engine until ready for serial production the 1500hp could have a comparable development time (68 months) of which 36 months still remain.

Quote

Under the ALTAY MBT National Power Pack Development (BATU) Project, on June 14, 2018 the SSB awarded a contract to BMC Power for the development of indigenous power pack with 1,500hp diesel engine to be coupled with a hydro-mechanical transmission for the ALTAY MBT.

Quote

Located at Teknopark Istanbul, BMC Power was also selected under the New Generation Armoured Combat Vehicle (NGACV) Power Pack Development Program by the DIEC on October 28, 2016 and a contract was signed between the company and the SSB on October 13, 2017. Under the program BMC Power will design, develop, test, qualify and deliver a power pack which will consist of a 675kW (905hp), V8 type 18-litter diesel engine coupled with an automatic transmission under a 68-month schedule. The contract become effective on January 4, 2018 and ‘To’ started.

https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/content/bmc-received-contract-for-series-production-of-altay-mbt-and-its-power-pack-3130

But in a very recent interview, the director of the company tasked to develop these engines (BMC Power) stated that in a wartime scenario they could skip the whole testing and integration phase and put the powerpack immediately to work in the Altay.

It is in Turkish so you'll have to excuse me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vAMg1lvm_E