The M4 Sherman Tank Epic Information Thread.. (work in progress)

[Collimatrix]

Courtesy of RobotMinisterofTrueKorea, a British report of a 75mm Sherman wrecking face:

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

Nice find Coli!

[Walter_Sobchak]

Interesting document.  I think some of these same encounters are described in the new book " Tank Action: An Armoured Troop Commander's War 1944 45" 

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

Damn, more books to buy. 

[Belesarius]

 

 

"A Sherman Tank and (what looks like) a Humber Armoured Car sit on a foggy hilltop road, waiting for the call to advance during the Final Battle for Monte Cassino. Cassino, Italy, 13th May, 1944. " Colorized WWII Photos

[EnsignExpendable]

[Meplat]

 

Hey, stop tailgating me!

[Walter_Sobchak]

I wonder if he knows his engine door is open.

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

I wonder if he knows his engine door is open.

 

 

I was wondering the same thing. I wonder where that was taken and what the story was. 

[EnsignExpendable]

Maybe it was overheating?

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

I know for sure if I was in one of those cars, I would be following the thing until it stopped so I could talk to them heh. 

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

New post I forgot to put in here:

 

Sherman Fire Control: How the Sherman aimed its Main Gun.

The Sherman tank went through a series of fire control changes each an improvement over the last.  The first tanks lacked telescopic sight mounted on the gun mount. The only site was incorporated into the gunner’s periscope, and it wasn’t magnified. Since the periscopes were all interchangeable, updating the older tanks was easy at least were the periscope was concerned.

The final fire control setup the Sherman gunner had at his disposal was pretty impressive by the standards of the time. He was in a hydroelectrically driven turret that rotated fast; he had very nice periscope setup with 1x and 6x scopes hooked into the gun with strong linkage.  He also had a telescopic sight to work with and the gun was stabilized.  This was a vast improvement over the unmagnified reticle on the first production models.

The Lee used a unique setup; the 75mm gun was aimed with an M1 periscope, with an M21A1 periscope built into it. The 37mm was aimed with an M2 periscope with an M19A1 periscope built in. Both the 37 and 75 mounts were stabilized. The prototype M6 Sherman used its own unique sight built into the sight rotor on the top of the turret, this was only used on a small number of production Shermans tanks.

Let’s look at the various periscopes and telescopes the Sherman used through its long life.  Let’s start with a look at the various versions of the periscope sights the production Sherman and the TDs based on the chassis below.

 

The M3 Periscope Sight

Since I just have a little info on this from TM 9-731B on the early M4A2, don’t have much to put here. Maybe this periscope is the one I’ve read about getting foggy on the inside in cold or humid locales. It was quickly replaced with the M4 detailed below.  This was one of the non-magnified periscopes.

The M4 Periscope sight

The Periscope M4; it had an M38 telescope with ballistic reticle inside, but no magnification. The M4 was not well liked, and the mount it fit in, was made from sheet metal and was a little flimsy.  The linkage that attacked it to the gun wasn’t very robust, and could be knocked out of alignment annoyingly easily.  On early Shermans this was a big complaint, since they did not have a direct telescope yet. You couldn’t really take advantage of the M3 75mm guns range with this sight setup either since it had no magnification. The later better periscopes like the M4, M4A1 and M8 series would all fit in the old mount though.

 

The M4A1 Periscope Sight

Next came an improved version of the M4, the M4A1, and they came with an M38A2telescope, this one was magnified, but not much at 1.44x, and a 9 degree field of view. Later versions of this periscope had illuminated reticles. The mount was not improved though nor was the linkage.  The M4A1 periscope was changed when the 105mm and 76mm armed Shermans came online, when used with these guns, they had the M47A2 for the 76 tanks, and M77C for the 105 tanks. Hunnicutt doesn’t specify if these were also 1.44X. This periscope was found on M4A1, A2, and A3 76 tanks during WWII.

 

The M8/M8A1 Periscope Sight

The M4A1 periscopes were replaced by the M8 and M8A1 periscopes. They were a lager tougher improvement on the M4 series, and had the M39A2 telescopic reticle for use with the 76mm gun, since it had the same reticle as the M47A2 used in the M4A1 periscope.  The M39A2 had 1.8x magnification, and a 6 degree FOV.  Even though at this point this was no longer the primary sight, the Army kept improving it. But the mount and linkage still remained an issue.

 

The M10 Periscope Sight

The Army came up with another new periscope sight system called the M10. They started issuing it late in the war around the same time wet tanks start appearing. This was a much improved periscope; it incorporated two telescopes with reticles, one 1.x, with a field of view of 42 degrees, ten minutes for engaging close targets. The second periscope had a 6x telescope with an 11 degree 20 minute field of view. This periscope could be used with the 76, 75, and 105mm guns when the right reticle was fitted. There was also an M16 periscope, pretty much the same as the m10, but with a reticle adjusting system.

M10C was specific to 75mm Shermans.

M10D was used on 76mm tanks, and 105 tanks.
  

The Periscope mount

for these periscopes were improved greatly when the 76mm gun and 105 tanks arrived, and the mount was made from a beefy casting, and all the linkage was made much stronger will ball bearing in all the pivot points. These would have shown up on M4A1 75w, M4A3 75w, M4A3 105, M4 105, and M4A3 76w, M4A2 76w and M4A1 76w tanks.

You can see the old style periscope mount in this shot.

This improved mount was also incorporated into most of the post war rebuild and overhauls. It is very easy to spot, by the heavy cast iron hood over the periscope hole.

In this shot you can see the improved heavy duty gunners periscope mount, spikes optional. The Telescopic sights.

The Shermans fire control system was improved further by the incorporation of a direct telescope mount to the M38A1 gun mount. This prompted the creation of the full length gun mantlet to protect the scope. When these were retrofitted into older tanks, sometimes they would weld on armor over the scope, leaving a half armored mantlet.

The later 76mm armed tanks had the M62 mount, and it had a telescopic sight mount from the start.

The direct scopes went through their own evolution, and this information is put together from the various TMs on the tanks and Hunnicutt’s Sherman, and is not complete. I will update this section as I get more info on the topic.

The M55 Telescope: The first! For the 75mm and 105

This telescope had 3x magnifications with 12 degree 19 minute FOV. This sight was also used on the early production 105 tanks and most 75mm Shermans.

The M51: Also the First, but for the 76 M1A1

The same scope as above, with the same specs, but with the reticle for the 76mm guns, and that’s all. There were complaints about the optical quality on these scopes, since the clarity wasn’t optimal.

M70 Telescopic Sight

The M50 sights were replaced with the M70 Series sights, the same size and magnification. What set them apart was there superior optical quality. The Army went on to develop many different versions of this sight. It was a 3X scope with a 12 degree 19 minute FOV.

M70F Telescopic Sight

This was version used on M4A3 75W Shermans.

  M70G Telescopic Sight

This sight was used on M10 GMC tank destroyers.

M70P Telescopic Sight

This sight was used on some M36 CMCs tank destroyers.

M71D Telescopic Sight

This was a 5x with a 13 degree FOV version of the scope. It had the reticle for the 76mm guns and was used on those tanks. This was the sight commonly found on M4A1 and M4A2 76 tanks.

  M71G Telescopic Sight

This version of the M71 was issued with the Jumbo tanks.

M72D Telescopic Sight

This was used on the 105mm armed Shermans.

M76F/D Telescopic Sight

These telescopes were used on the M36 GMC tank destroyers.

  M76G Telescopic Sight

This scope only had a 3x magnification, with a 21 degree, 30 minutes FOV, and was used in 105 tank applications later in the war.

M83 Veritable Power Telescopic Sight.

This scope had two settings, 4x 7 degrees, 40 minutes and 8x 4 degrees, 15 minutes, and M83D version of this sight worked with the 76mm guns when in an M62 mount. I have not seen this one mentioned anywhere but Hunnicutt’s Sherman book. That doesn’t mean it didn’t get issued as a replacent later in the war, since I’m going off TM’s and spec sheets and those are a small snapshot into a tanks actual combat gear.

. . .

 

Indirect Fire Control Gear

You would think that would be it for fire control equipment, but it’s not, because all Shermans came equipped with the equipment for their tanks to work as impromptu artillery batteries all Sherman based TDs had this gear as well. The US Army had this extra gear installed all the way up to the M60 tanks. During the war, some tank and TD battalions were very good at being artillery; other units didn’t train for it, and were not good.  This was a good way of keeping tanks useful in Italy, and they filled this role a lot there. I do not think this was something many other nations did with their tanks.

Azimuth Indicator M19

The Azimuth Indicator was mounted near the gunner, right behind the traverse control. This device was used to dial in what direction the gun needed to be pointed in to carry out the fire mission.

Gunners Quadrant M1

The Gunners quadrant is a portable precision instrument used for measuring the elevation or depression angles of guns and howitzers. It can also be used for checking the adjusting of elevation devices on sighting equipment furnished with a gun or howitzer. This was taken right from the Characteristics in tech manual 9-1527.

Elevation Quadrant M9

The Elevation Quadrant M9 was used to lay the tanks main gun in elevation for indirect fire. There are detailed instructions for setting it up in TM 9-748.

A Sherman unit trained in how to act as an artillery battery would probably be told they were on call when not in direct combat but close enough for the 75s to reach. They would have men manning radios in the tanks while other tasks were being done, like maintenance, personal things and eating. When they got the call, the designated battery commander for each platoon would listen to the directions on the arty net or get in direct contact with the spotter. In many cases they would wired into the directly, so they wouldn’t need to worry about radio reception. They would relay the aiming information out the tanks on the radio or phone net and then they would start firing.

M4 being used as artillery

Once they started firing the hole crew would help feed the gun, and if they were doing it as a common thing they might even have large amounts of ammo unboxed outside the tank, where the driver and co-driver could feed them to the commander who then fed  them to the loader.  The M3 75mm gun worked well in this role, since the barrel had a life in excess of 4000 rounds.

M4 105 acting as artillery.

Sources: Sherman by R.P. Hunnicutt, TM9-731b, TM9-731G, TM9-748, TM9-748, TM9-750, TM9-752, TM9-754, TM9-759

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

Todays post. 

 

The RAM: The Shermans awkward Canadian Cousin.

The Lee was a bit of a red headed step child, except it had a soul, and no one really wanted it. Even before production started, both the US Army, and British, working with Canadians, was working on a replacement design.  The British did not like the dual purpose M3 75mm gun on a cruiser tank, they  wanted a tank with their 57mm six pounder gun, because it had slightly superior AP performance, and their cruiser tanks were assigned the task of fighting other tanks, not infantry. The American Tank designers and Army Officers didn’t agree, and planned on using the M3 75mm gun and their stubbornness led the Brits to try and beat them to the punch, and they did, but the punch wasn’t there, literally.

A not very good pic of a RAM I

The model they sent to Aberdeen Proving Grounds for the US Army to test, was a MK I model with a 37mm gun.  This was in June of 1941, while the Sherman pilot was probably being built, and the pilot Sherman arrived in early September. They did this because they had some problems with a suitable mount for the 57mm 6 pounder. They probably sent one with a 6 pounder later, but I’m sure once the US Army had the Sherman pilot, most of the interest in the Ram would have died off, since there was zero chance of the RAM II winning out over the Sherman. They did produce nearly 2000 of them though, and the chassis was used in other roles, most notably as an APC and Command Tank.

A very nice color shot of an early RAM II

It is interesting it saw no combat use as a tank, it was certainly better than the Lee, at least on paper, but the Lee soldiered on in secondary theaters, the Ram was never given a shot. Like the Lee, it went through some fairly major changes during its production run. The Ram started life with a little machine gun turret on the front, where the driver should be, just like the Lee’s commanders cupola. This would be a feature it shed; getting a more traditional bow mounted machine gun, late in the run. It was still on the wrong side though.  It had side doors, with a little DV port, armored flap, like the Lee. The view port was replaced with a ventilator, and then the whole door was removed. They also removed the periscopic sight for the gunner and replaced that with a ventilator as well.

This is a later production RAM II, note the ventilator on the crew side door, but it still has the mini turret.

Since the RAM was based on the Lee, it was pretty much Lee from the top of the treads down, and used the same R975 radial the basic M3, and M4 and M4A1 tanks used. It used the same suspension as the early Shermans and Lees, with the single overhead roller and could use the same VVSS tracks as the Sherman. It was certainly better or equal to any tank the Brits had with the same gun, but by the time it was available in numbers, the Sherman was as well, and it was superior tank, and because of its larger turret ring, had room to grow because it could take bigger guns.

A late production RAM II at the Museum at Canadian Forces Base Borden. This is a massive photo, click for the full size.

Another early RAM at Canadian Forces Base Borden

It wasn’t all a waste of time, and steel, the hulls were used for Kangaroo APCs, and a number were built or converted to command or observation post tanks, and they were used as ammo carriers. The Ram also made a good training tank allowing Shermans to be sent to combat units. The observation or command version was interesting. They removed the main gun, and put a dummy in its place, put in extra seats, so six men could fit, added an observation port, map table and extra radios. The APC and Command versions saw extensive use by Canadian troops in the ETO.

Early RAM II being used in training.

There is a fantastic web page on the subject, it called, RAMTank.CO A Registry of Canada’s Tank. This website has a more detailed history, a complete serial number list, and tons of pictures; it’s really worth checking out. I’ll be adding it to the links section as well. It also has a little bit of Sherman history too, since it covers the M4A1 Grizzly, the tank that replaced the Ram on the production line when the RAM was canceled, and the Sherman Skink AA vehicle, and Sexton. It also has an M4A2E8, Churchill and Centurion registries. Having just discovered the website, doing research for this post, I’ll be spending  a few hours at least checking it out.

An early RAM II

a very nice color shot of mid production RAM IIs being used in training.

Sources: Sherman by Hunnicutt, RAMTank.CA  

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

How many flaws can you all find in this turkey? I'm at 12 so far and that's with a cursory look. 

 

[Walter_Sobchak]

Hey Jeeps, did you happen to see this photo album?  It's by Pierre-Olivier, the guy from the Sherman Minutae website.  He recently visited the US, driving around to visit numerous Sherman tanks.

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

Hey Jeeps, did you happen to see this photo album?  It's by Pierre-Olivier, the guy from the Sherman Minutiae website.  He recently visited the US, driving around to visit numerous Sherman tanks.

No, I had missed that, for some reason I can never get the account creation thing to work there. The place is kinda intimidating, lots of big names in the Sherman world there, what if they think my site is a load if shit? lol

 

After looking at them, I'm really curious how so many tanks in the rust belt ended up being monuments, with brand new tracks.

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

I just made this and added it to the site. Pretty cool diagram from a doc on the RAMII sent to be by a guy in Australia. 

 

[Meplat]

No, I had missed that, for some reason I can never get the account creation thing to work there. The place is kinda intimidating, lots of big names in the Sherman world there, what if they think my site is a load if shit? lol

 

After looking at them, I'm really curious how so many tanks in the rust belt ended up being monuments, with brand new tracks.

Just a guess, but considering the sheer momentum of U.S. manufacturing, there were likely far more tracks than tanks.

 

This is why you see a lot of M-18's tooling about on Chaffee tracks and roadwheels.

[EnsignExpendable]

Someone at the CIA was hitting the good weed:

 

[Meplat]

Someone at the CIA was hitting the good weed:

 

 

Sounds like a terrible description of a Jumbo, with a MG for the loader added.

[Scolopax]

Was something real actually trying to be described?

[EnsignExpendable]

Was something real actually trying to be described?

 

Nothing I've ever heard of. Or that makes sense. Based on the other shit I read from (likely) the same source, it's a complete fantasy.

 

Sounds like a terrible description of a Jumbo, with a MG for the loader added.

 

Jumbo had a crew of six?

[Meplat]

 

 

 

Jumbo had a crew of six?

No, just five. We'll guess the drunkard doing the description had never seen anything other than a M3 Medium, and assumed the extra two were in the boiler room, stoking the fires..

 

 

But 40 odd tons "modified Sherman"+76mm+four MG's+ double wheel bogies, sure sounds like a bad description of a Jumbo to me.

[Walter_Sobchak]

Jeeps, you might want to watch this.

 

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

Jeeps, you might want to watch this.

 

Nice!

 

Finally he does a tank I really like.