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Sturgeon's House

"Pigs" Have A Hard Job


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  • 3 weeks later...

That's not as bad the recent one were some idiot cop shot the women his partner, who was between them the two cops int he car, the women outside talking to the driver, and the passenger cop shoots a Australian Yoga instructor in her face, and killed her. So far the justification has been, he heard a load bang outside the car and that scared him. The "Cop" who did it won't make a statement, but was one of the first immigrants from Somalia to get on the force. 

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4 minutes ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

That's not as bad the recent one were some idiot cop shot the women his partner, who was between them the two cops int he car, the women outside talking to the driver, and the passenger cop shoots a Australian Yoga instructor in her face, and killed her. So far the justification has been, he heard a load bang outside the car and that scared him. The "Cop" who did it won't make a statement, but was one of the first immigrants from Somalia to get on the force. 

 

IT'S WEIRD HOW I HADN'T HEARD THAT YET?

ISN'T THAT WEIRD?

WHAT A COMPLETELY INEXPLICABLE AND TOTALLY RANDOM COINCIDENCE

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On 7/22/2017 at 8:15 AM, Belesarius said:

 

The first one looks pretty damned fishy, I'll give you that.

 

The second one? I want more background before I judge. Something feels off about the article. They aren't telling us everything.

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  • 1 month later...
1 hour ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

On the whole I think I'd still prefer to see Tasers (or other less potentially lethal alternatives) being used in these situations, but anything would be an improvement over the current (apparent) carnage (as it is portrayed to me by various media). 

 

I tagged you guys mostly for his perspective. You can see how Chris is fighting the serious institutional inertia, and culture of self-preservation I was talking about.

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3 hours ago, Donward said:

Cops used to engage in non-lethal takedowns of suspects. It was called using a nightstick/baton/billyclub.

 

And it worked.

 

After the Rodney King incident, police were forced to adopt other methods.

 

Yeah, that's a good point. The dysfunction really goes three ways: The people in the communities the police serve, the police organizations themselves, and external forces who manipulate police policies to get ahead.

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Yup.....They use extending batons as a rule these days. 

 

Wiki has a decent listing of current gear and the legal provisions that relate to it, here:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_uniforms_and_equipment_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

Quote

Batons are offensive weapons; the following are offences under the Criminal Justice Act 1988:

 

  • manufacturing,
  • selling or hiring,
  • offering for sale or hire,
  • exposing having in your possession for the purpose of sale or hire,
  • lending,
  • giving to any other person, or
  • importing

an offensive weapon.[25] The list of weapons regarded as offensive for the purposes of the act includes "straight, side-handled or friction-lock truncheons (sometimes known as a batons)" in the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) (Amendment) Order 2004 and "telescopic truncheons" in the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988. The restrictions on the activities listed above do not apply "for the purposes of functions carried out on behalf of the Crown",[26] which includes water bailiffs, immigration officers and police constables. In addition, police constables have "lawful authority" to possess batons.[22]

 

PS - The article you linked to earlier made mention of 'Beanbag' ammunition for shotguns.....It's my recollection that patrol cars usually carry a shotgun (and possibly an AR too these days?), surely the shotgun could be loaded with non-lethal ammunition as a matter of course?  

 

A critical issue is that (IMHO) law enforcement officers should never patrol on their own, they should always operate in pairs, the rest seems pretty bloody obvious to me.

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One final thought.....Can I suggest that the very act of drawing handguns automatically increases the risk in an already risky situation, simply by virtue of placing the officer under stress.  One has a lot more conversational options while casually cradling a shotgun than one does while staring down the sights of a pistol.

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3 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

One final thought.....Can I suggest that the very act of drawing handguns automatically increases the risk in an already risky situation, simply by virtue of placing the officer under stress.  One has a lot more conversational options while casually cradling a shotgun than one does while staring down the sights of a pistol.

 

I agree with this, but prevailing wisdom in the US LEO community is to draw early as a defense against unexpected attacks. But I think in many, many cases it makes already bad situations worse. Guns are not shields, unfortunately.

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31 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

Guns are not shields, unfortunately.

 

That should be a mandatory lesson IMHO. 

 

It's my experience from watching videos where 'things go wrong' that you can sense the impending 'issue' long before it occurs, the officers often appear to enter the scene like a bull in a china shop.....Bringing extra aggression into a potentially violent situation never helps.

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On 9/24/2017 at 3:46 PM, Sturgeon said:

@Sgt.Squarehead, @Legiondude, @Xoon, probably not what you had in mind, but it's thinking along the same lines:

 

http://www.breachbangclear.com/should-cops-make-limb-shots-breach-bang-clear/

 

 

Haven't read yet, but most cops would need much much more training to be able to hit limbs, since they have so much trouble hitting at all.  When a firearm is warranted, that means deadly force is being used, and if we can train them to hit limbs, we could train them to hit heads, and that would be the better option. 

 

Edit: Having read it, I now agree with him,  and it was a good read. 

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