The Soviet Tank Thread: Transversely Mounted 1000hp Engines

[Dominus Dolorem]

5 hours ago, Wiedzmin said:

 

seems that T-90M turret is simply worse than T-90A in every bit in terms of protection, LOS is much lesser(due to angle of frontal modules is now 39 instead of 51 with same physical thickness of module), turret roof incline is again 78 deg instead of T-90A 84 etc...

Atleast to weakened zone is now smaller.

[watch_your_fire]

11 hours ago, Wiedzmin said:

 

seems that T-90M turret is simply worse than T-90A in every bit in terms of protection, LOS is much lesser(due to angle of frontal modules is now 39 instead of 51 with same physical thickness of module), turret roof incline is again 78 deg instead of T-90A 84 etc...

Not true. The lesser angle on the armor blocks increases the protection arc by a lot, which is probably worth the decrease in straight on protection.

[alanch90]

13 hours ago, Wiedzmin said:

seems that T-90M turret is simply worse than T-90A in every bit in terms of protection, LOS is much lesser(due to angle of frontal modules is now 39 instead of 51 with same physical thickness of module), turret roof incline is again 78 deg instead of T-90A 84 etc...

Most likely its compensated by increased impact angle on the ´reflective places´, which increases their efficiency. And that is assuming that the armor array is the same as back in 1985.

[Wiedzmin]

15 hours ago, Dominus Dolorem said:

Atleast to weakened zone is now smaller.

nope, bigger than older turret

[Dominus Dolorem]

5 hours ago, Wiedzmin said:

nope, bigger than older turret

In what way exactly?

 

On the old turret the cheeks barely even covered the Gunner and Commander who sat mostly behind the flat zone which became very thin as it go closer to the mantlet. Were you talking about a different weakened zone?

[LoooSeR]

Newer turret roof section frontal projection is bigger than older one. Not sure how well works Relikt and turret frontal armor vs specific rods, side ERA vs other projectiles, but frontal arc of highest protection is probably lower as well. 

And this is without taking into account mantlet area.

[Dominus Dolorem]

I just found this, the commanders side has some issues.

 

[LoooSeR]

That is T-90MS.

[Dominus Dolorem]

13 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

That is T-90MS.

Did they fix this on the T-90M?

[Volke]

4 hours ago, Dominus Dolorem said:

Did they fix this on the T-90M?

That depends with your definition of a fix, it is better protected with ERA and the turret seems to have a bit diffrent shape there, but the base protection is still only 70 mm of steel.

Also the cables seem to be arranged way better instead of just lying on top of the turret.

[mr.T]

Algeria realy seems to dig the heavy AFV , first they purchased the Terminator BMPTs , now they want to convert old T-62 with Berezhok turret , they already updated their old BMPs with these turrets so i am not quite sure what kind of sense there is with using the same on tanks hulls.

 

[Dominus Dolorem]

20 hours ago, Volke said:

That depends with your definition of a fix, it is better protected with ERA and the turret seems to have a bit diffrent shape there, but the base protection is still only 70 mm of steel.

Also the cables seem to be arranged way better instead of just lying on top of the turret.

I am not so sure if even the best ERA can keep things out of only 70mm of steel

 

2 hours ago, mr.T said:

Algeria realy seems to dig the heavy AFV , first they purchased the Terminator BMPTs , now they want to convert old T-62 with Berezhok turret , they already updated their old BMPs with these turrets so i am not quite sure what kind of sense there is with using the same on tanks hulls.

 

Why the upgraded BMP2 turret? Surely the BTRT turret, Bumerang-BM or Spitsa would make more sense on a T62. Then there is also the 57mm turret.

[LoooSeR]

   BTR-80 in Nakidka (from same event where T-80UD was shown in foamed pain with radar emission-abosrbing material)

 

   Claimed to be Algerian conversion of T-62s using Berezhok turrets

 

Spoiler

 

[LoooSeR]

BMP-3 with Epokha and Uran-9

 

   Speaking of UGVs, here is a little video of Marker's 100 km autonomous trip:

 

[LoooSeR]

23 hours ago, Dominus Dolorem said:

I am not so sure if even the best ERA can keep things out of only 70mm of steel

 

Why the upgraded BMP2 turret? Surely the BTRT turret, Bumerang-BM or Spitsa would make more sense on a T62. Then there is also the 57mm turret.

1) it can, depends on angle of impact, ERA, distance between ERA and actual hull, type of warhead. There is 2S24 ERA for BMP-3 that can stop certain HEAT rockets from RPG-7.

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

2) Boomerang-BM is nearly same as Berezhok in terms of weapons. Main difference are in FCS/electronics/BMS, features that Algerian army is not going to be able to take full advantage from. BTR-T "turret" is not a thing, and generally 30 mm AC armed turrets or combat modules are kind of weak and low energy choice for tank chassis to carry around. This is almost as dumb as BMPT.

[LoooSeR]

   At Army 2021

 

Spoiler

 

[Wiedzmin]

On 9/3/2021 at 2:54 PM, Dominus Dolorem said:

In what way exactly?

turret roof is now 78 degree, like on  T-64/T-72, and it's weakned zone even for old 125mm APFSDS and HEAT

 

+ areas of roof where sights and commander cupola instaleed has even less(much less) inclanation angle

 

  

On 9/3/2021 at 2:54 PM, Dominus Dolorem said:

On the old turret the cheeks barely even covered the Gunner and Commander who sat mostly behind the flat zone which became very thin as it go closer to the mantlet

what ? do you know the constuction of turret ? 

[Dominus Dolorem]

18 hours ago, LoooSeR said:

1) it can, depends on angle of impact, ERA, distance between ERA and actual hull, type of warhead. There is 2S24 ERA for BMP-3 that can stop certain HEAT rockets from RPG-7.

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

2) Boomerang-BM is nearly same as Berezhok in terms of weapons. Main difference are in FCS/electronics/BMS, features that Algerian army is not going to be able to take full advantage from. BTR-T "turret" is not a thing, and generally 30 mm AC armed turrets or combat modules are kind of weak and low energy choice for tank chassis to carry around. This is almost as dumb as BMPT.

1) I was referring to modern APFSDS, I do not think it will be practical to protect a single layer of thin steel against it with ERA. Shaped charges of infantry rockets are a different story, but I still wonder if it would not be better to just use NERA instead of thoes ludicrous ERA blocks.

 

2) I agree that they are unlikely to get a good vehicle out of this program, I just though it silly to mount a lightly armored manned turret on a hull that should be relatively resistant to most autocannon. Most of my suggestions were unmanned turrets with a similar armament to Berezhok.     

[mr.T]

T-90M turrets 

[LoooSeR]

   Sarmat-2 buggy. Another 4 wheeler added to a crowd - Eskadron, Tourist, Chaborz, and others.

   Around it - black armored UAZ Patriots used by SFs.

[LoooSeR]

On 9/10/2021 at 12:37 AM, LoooSeR said:

   Sarmat-2 buggy. Another 4 wheeler added to a crowd - Eskadron, Tourist, Chaborz, and others.

   Around it - black armored UAZ Patriots used by SFs.

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Quote

   Light special vehicle "Sarmat-2" is designed for the transportation of personnel up to 3 people, various cargoes on all types of roads and terrain, as well as the installation of weapons and military equipment - 12.7-mm machine guns "Kord", automatic grenade launchers AGS-17 "Flame".

 

   The "Sarmat-2" car has a bonnet configuration, a two-axle 4x4 wheel arrangement. The vehicle is designed for operation in operating air temperatures from minus 20 to plus 50 ° С, can be operated in mountainous areas at an altitude of up to 3100 meters above sea level, overcome passes up to 4500 meters high, and can also be transported by air by army aviation helicopters on an external sling and carry a maximum permissible load of up to 600 kg with a total permissible gross vehicle weight of about 2000 kg. 

 

 

[mr.T]

Instead of stabilising the main gun a skipping all the surplus armaments , it seems we want more Dakka won.

 

 

https://vk.com/video50233762_456240945

[LoooSeR]

33 minutes ago, mr.T said:

Instead of stabilising the main gun a skipping all the surplus armaments , it seems we want more Dakka won.

 

 

https://vk.com/video50233762_456240945

Same amount of dakka on the picture as it was for years.

[LoooSeR]

   BMP-3 with Epokha ("B-19") with Bulat ATGMs launcher in open position, behind Uran-9 UGV

 

Spoiler

 

 

[LoooSeR]

   More of B-19

 

Spoiler

 

 

   Also, those nice scorch marks, on Kurganets turret there are laser detectors right in exhaust area.