The Soviet Tank Thread: Transversely Mounted 1000hp Engines

[LoooSeR]

   Vystrel armored car with unmanned turret armed with 30 mm AC. Probably test rig.

[Jim Warford]

On 2/24/2020 at 2:28 PM, Wiedzmin said:

https://videos.sapo.pt/9SCTzIGNJwZGJ52qVKZE

 

T-64 in Angola

 

 

Wow...as many of you know and may remember from various discussions over the years, there has always been a series of myths and legends in the armor community. Most have been resolved over the years...like the myth that the French used Panthers in Indochina. Historically, the rumor regarding T-64s in Angola has lingered-on for quite some time. Most people and reliable military sources continued to disregard this rumor immediately, considering it a case of poor vehicle ID, etc. Reports that very specifically identify T-64s in Angola and specifically name Ukraine as the source, continued to appear...but interestingly enough, through political and diplomatic reporting. 

 

These photos (finally) confirm that T-64s were present...thanks for posting the link and sharing the photos...great stuff.

 

[Wiedzmin]

 

T-55 shelling in Germany, 1971.

 

turret

 

105mm APDS DM13 (aka L28 / M392 / L36)

 

hit 42:

- thickness at the point of impact 119mm

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 30g

- impact speed 1471 m / s (v25), range 200 meters

- penetration

 

hit 43:

- thickness at the point of impact 140mm

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 30g

- impact speed 1473 m / s, range 200 meters

- bulging with a crack

 

hit 44:

- not taken into account, because the projectile hited into the embrasure of the sight.

 

hit 45:

- thickness at the point of impact 160mm

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 44 gr

- impact speed 1460 m / s, range 200 meters

-  penetration

 

hit 13:

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 24g

- impact speed 1437 m / s, range 100 meters

- bulging with a crack

 

hit 14:

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 24g

- impact speed 1438 m / s, range 200 meters

- bulging with a crack

 

hit 15:

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 26g

- impact speed 1333 m / s, range 1000 meters

-  penetration with a plug

 

hit 16:

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 26g

- impact speed 1331 m / s, range 1000 meters

-  penetration

 

hit 17:

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 25g

- impact speed 1287 m / s, range 1500 meters

- bulging without crack

 

hit 18:

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 28g

- impact speed 1280 m / s, range 2000 meters

-  penetration

 

 

Hull

 

105mm APDS DM13 (aka L28 / M392 / L36)

105mm HESH

90mm HESH

 

hit 1:

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm - UFP

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 65g (the body was apparently specially tilted to a larger angle)

- impact speed 1427 m / s (v25), range 200 meters

- bulging with a crack

 

hit 2:

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm - UFP

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 62g (the body was apparently specially tilted to a larger angle)

- impact speed 1436 m / s (v25), range 200 meters

- penetration

 

hit 3:

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm- UFP

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 66g (the body was apparently specially tilted to a larger angle)

- impact speed 1433 m / s (v25), range 200 meters

- bulging with a crack

 

Hit 10 (HESH):

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm- UFP

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 60g

- scab with a diameter of 200mm and a thickness of 20mm

 

Hit 18 (90mm HESH):

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm - UFP

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 60g

- nothing

 

hit 4:

- thickness at the point of impact 80mm - board

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 70 gr (course +20)

- impact speed 1427 m / s (v25), range 200 meters

- bulging with a crack

 

hit 5:

- thickness at the point of impact 80mm - board

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 68 gr (course +22)

- impact speed 1427 m / s (v25), range 200 meters

- penetration

 

hit 6:

- thickness at the point of impact 80mm - board

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 70 gr (course +20)

- shock speed 1397 m / s (v25), range 200 meters

- bulging without crack

 

hit 7:

- thickness at the point of impact 80mm - board

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 50 gr (course + -40)

- impact speed 1416 m / s (v25), range 200 meters

- penetration

 

hit 8:

- thickness at the point of impact 80mm - board

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 60 gr (course + -30)

- impact speed 1416 m / s (v25), range 200 meters

- penetration

 

hit 12:

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm -- UFP

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 60g

- shock speed - m / s (v25), range 1000 meters

- hit the tow hook

 

hit 13:

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm - UFP

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 60g

- shock speed - m / s (v25), range 1000 meters

- penetration

 

hit 2:

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm - UFP

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 60g

- shock speed - 1332m / s (v25), range 1000 meters

- penetration

 

hit 9:

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm - UFP

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 62.5g

- shock speed - 1341m / s (v25), range 1000 meters

- penetration

 

hit 10:

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm- UFP

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 62.5g

- shock speed - 1353m / s (v25), range 1000 meters

- bulging with a crack

 

hit 4:

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm - UFP

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 60g

- impact speed - 1292m / s (v25), range 1500 meters

- penetration

 

hit 8:

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm -- UFP

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 62.5g

- shock speed - 1278m / s (v25), range 1500 meters

- bulging without crack

 

hit 11:

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm - UFP

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 61.5g

- impact speed - 1296m / s (v25), range 1500 meters

- bulging with a crack

 

hit 6:

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm - UFP

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 60g

- impact speed - 1274m / s (v25), range 2000 meters

- bulging with a crack

 

hit 7:

- thickness at the point of impact 100mm -- UFP

- angle (Aufschlagwinkel) 60g

- impact speed - 1260m / s (v25), range 2000 meters

- bulging with a crack

 

[That_Baka]

I think you should use english terms instead of transliterated russian ones. For the reference :BPS- in this context means APDS,VLD is UFP

[heretic88]

So much about the "poorly armored" T-55...  It did well in that test I think, considering the age of the T-54/55 design. Was this the basis of the 1974 report which concluded that 60% of the turret front profile is only vulnerable out to maximum 800m?  

[Wiedzmin]

problem with report, that is not full(still trying to get full report, but only some parts is available)

 

 

i think that firing was done frome some flank angle, and if you fire turret straigh on line (0 deg flakn angle) penetration will be difficult to obtaine due to turret shape 

 

 

as for report date, folder with T-55 firing is 1971, and metallurgical research also 1971 (armour scheme 1.12.1970), and my bad. trials 15.4.1971

 

UFP - 302HB (HB 30 kp/mm2)

 

LFP- 302HB (HB 30 kp/mm2)

CrNiMo-legieter Verguntungsstahl

Erschmelzungsart: SM-Ofen

C -0,29

Si-0.33

Mn-0.42

P-0.011

S-0.015

Al-0.018

Cr-2.22

Cu-0.09

Mo-0.31

Ni-1.92

V- <0.02

Sn-0.007

Ti 0

As

B - <0.001

Nb - <0.01

Nppm(?) 73

 

 

hull side - 295 HB (HB 30 kp/mm2)

turret cast - 270-267

[Wiedzmin]

 

ERA covered area level - genius...

[Karamazov]

51 minutes ago, Wiedzmin said:

ERA covered area level - genius...

what do you mean?

[Wiedzmin]

15 minutes ago, Karamazov said:

what do you mean?

 

 

if the blocks can flip down there is a lagre gap, if not, whole unprotected area is even bigger(like on green 90M in factory)

[Karamazov]

1 hour ago, Wiedzmin said:

if the blocks can flip down there is a lagre gap, if not, whole unprotected area is even bigger(like on green 90M in factory)

maybe they have not yet been installed?

[Beer]

It's still 100% more ERA covered than Abrams M1A2 or Leopard 2A7. Isn't it? 

[LoooSeR]

   T-90Ms being prepared for a Victory parade, few more pics.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

[LoooSeR]

   Indian T-90S with mine plough

 

17 minutes ago, Beer said:

It's still 100% more ERA covered than Abrams M1A2 or Leopard 2A7. Isn't it? 

   Abrams and modern Leo 2s tend to have more armor on turret side in the first place. This gap in ERA coverage doesn't look like it is really needed, it is easy to cover it with ERA tiles. Are they trying to save cost on amount of ERA tiles? IDK.

[Beer]

1 hour ago, LoooSeR said:

 Abrams and modern Leo 2s tend to have more armor on turret side in the first place. This gap in ERA coverage doesn't look like it is really needed, it is easy to cover it with ERA tiles. Are they trying to save cost on amount of ERA tiles? IDK.

 

Their stronger side turret armor is effective enough only under angles for which the Turret of T-90M is covered by frontal ERA. If hit directly from the sides it's not strong enough and the ERA on T-90M definitely offers more protection even if placed strangely high. Isn't it like that because if placed lower the turret could not rotate 360°? The ERA adds a lot to the turret size. 

[Karamazov]

6 hours ago, Beer said:

It's still 100% more ERA covered than Abrams M1A2 or Leopard 2A7. Isn't it? 

This problem is completely solved by the use of TUSK II and PSO kits. 

[Beer]

42 minutes ago, Karamazov said:

This problem is completely solved by the use of TUSK II and PSO kits. 

 

Who is using PSO kit? Are there any ARAT-2 equipped Abramses anywhere outside Iraq? Never saw any in photos from Europe but I may have missed them. 

[N-L-M]

5 hours ago, Beer said:

If hit directly from the sides it's not strong enough

So, ARAT -1 only covers the hull sides, which suggests that whatever those skirts are rated for, the turret side can already stop.

[Karamazov]

45 minutes ago, N-L-M said:

So, ARAT -1 only covers the hull sides, which suggests that whatever those skirts are rated for, the turret side can already stop.

Not only. But, as i know, turret sides have no ERA, ceramic plates only

[Karamazov]

56 minutes ago, Beer said:

Who is using PSO kit? Are there any ARAT-2 equipped Abramses anywhere outside Iraq? Never saw any in photos from Europe but I may have missed them. 

In Afghanistan, Danish and Canadian tanks were equipped with full side armor modules. This is not PSO, but smth like it. 
The fact is that the United States and Europe have the opportunity to equip their tanks and IFV with modular side protection. 

[N-L-M]

19 minutes ago, Karamazov said:

Not only. 

That's ARAT 2, which is also ERA. Covers the hull ARAT 1 and the bare turret side, thus again suggesting that the turret side is equivalent to the ARAT 1 skirts.

[Ramlaen]

3 hours ago, Beer said:

Never saw any in photos from Europe but I may have missed them. 

 

Because they are usually not equipped in peacetime, not because they don't exist.

 

[Wiedzmin]

16 hours ago, Karamazov said:

maybe they have not yet been installed?

tank with anti RPG mesh have full set

 

13 hours ago, Beer said:

If hit directly from the sides

blocks on T-90M turret sides,and T-72B3 made for "directly from the side" cases 

 

 

 

[Karamazov]

10 hours ago, N-L-M said:

That's ARAT 2, which is also ERA.

ARAT II this is ARAT ERA with cover of ceramic plates. 
But the turret's sides have no ERA elements. Because you may be right:

10 hours ago, N-L-M said:

Covers the hull ARAT 1 and the bare turret side, thus again suggesting that the turret side is equivalent to the ARAT 1 skirts.

But the turret side cant protect against tandem missiles, i think, and for this they just use plates only.

[N-L-M]

2 minutes ago, Karamazov said:

ARAT II this is ARAT ERA with cover of ceramic plates.

There is no reason to believe ARAT 2 has ceramics, it's a single curved ERA tile.

To clarify, M32 is the ARAT 2 reactive tile.

[Karamazov]

4 hours ago, Wiedzmin said:

tank with anti RPG mesh have full set

saved a couple of thousand rubles for ice cream
as usual