Ukrainian Civil War Thread: All Quiet on the Sturgeon Front

[watch_your_fire]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russias-ria-state-agency-reports-fuel-tank-fire-kerch-bridge-crimea-2022-10-08/

 

[mr.T]

On 10/1/2022 at 10:56 PM, Miroslav said:

 

That is not strange. This is not a soccer game.

Ukraine war is presented as a soccer game , it litteraly being live streamed on MSM that other wise has qualms and warning labels everytime someone says a cus word.

[Miroslav]

On 10/8/2022 at 4:01 PM, mr.T said:

Ukraine war is presented as a soccer game , it litteraly being live streamed on MSM that other wise has qualms and warning labels everytime someone says a cus word.

If you don't trust amerikanskiy televizor, then turn it off.

 

Regardless of amerikanskiy televizor, this war is an invasion by the Russian Federation of an independent country, who is trying to get on its feet after centuries of bullying by Russia. Countries such as Poland are putting their historical grudges with the Ukrainians aside and are assisting in an admirable way.

[LoooSeR]

5 hours ago, Miroslav said:

If you don't trust amerikanskiy televizor, then turn it off.

 

Regardless of amerikanskiy televizor, this war is an invasion by the Russian Federation of an independent country, who is trying to get on its feet after centuries of bullying by Russia. Countries such as Poland are putting their historical grudges with the Ukrainians aside and are assisting in an admirable way.

We are also actively helping them forget their dark Soviet past by leveling everything commies build in Ukraine.

 

[Lord_James]

In addition to posting about the Artemis 1 launch this morning, apparently a missile from Ukraine landed in Poland and killed 2 people?

[LoooSeR]

 

 

[Pardus]

On 3/10/2022 at 11:47 PM, Sturgeon said:

USER PARDUS HAS BEEN BANNED UNTIL MAY 1 FOR INSUFFICIENT LOYALTY TO VLADOLF PUTLER

 

Can I get a medal engraved with that?

[Żółć]

Poland's President confirmed that PL wants to send a company worth Leopard 2s to Ukraine. it is not clear whether the company in mention is to be a polish one, with 14 tanks, or a Ukrainian one, consisting of 10 tanks. 

[LoooSeR]

 

[Pardus]

 

 

 

[watch_your_fire]

1 hour ago, Pardus said:

 

 

 

They call this the "military industrial complex" mate

[Pardus]

3 minutes ago, watch_your_fire said:

They call this the "military industrial complex" mate

 

You should find there are some pretty major differences to what the Russians are doing here. 

 

Anyway the presenter is an officer & military analyst for the Danish army, and I can only highly recommend his videos covering the war, esp. if one is interested in a professionally guided and objective PoV on the war.

[Pardus]

 

[LoooSeR]

8 hours ago, Pardus said:

 

Ewwww Bad Takes&Shitty analytics. Why even post this here, it belongs in the trash bin.

[Pardus]

2 hours ago, LoooSeR said:

Ewwww Bad Takes&Shitty analytics. Why even post this here, it belongs in the trash bin.

 

What specifically is wrong with it?

[LoooSeR]

21 minutes ago, Pardus said:

 

What specifically is wrong with it?

Any video i watched from this channel is quite bad. Last one i watched was Kornet vs Jav and it was kind of train wreck. After that i don't waste my time with him as he is consistent in his low level of quaility.

[Pardus]

Ok, I was kind of hoping for some specific examples of where he got it wrong to the point where he is untrustworthy, or where his analysis is particularly faulty. 

 

I prefer objective analysis myself, and apart from maybe a few times in some of his videos where he becomes abit too "americano central" (which he also openly admits and mocks himself for btw) he has never come off as spewing downright "shitty trash" in my view.  Infact he seems to be pretty clear about both his sources, drawing a lot of information from both active and past personnel in the know.

[LoooSeR]

4 hours ago, Pardus said:

Ok, I was kind of hoping for some specific examples of where he got it wrong to the point where he is untrustworthy, or where his analysis is particularly faulty. 

   I watched several of his video before, wasted enough of my time already on this channel. Its like trying to find good analysis on weapons in mass medias like CNN or RT.

People care about hygiene of the stomach, food quality, which makes most of people to not eat from a trashpile. I would like to not fill my brain with this crap anymore.

 

4 hours ago, Pardus said:

I prefer objective analysis myself, and apart from maybe a few times in some of his videos where he becomes abit too "americano central" (which he also openly admits and mocks himself for btw) he has never come off as spewing downright "shitty trash" in my view. 

   Kornet vs Javelin is a train wreck, again, that made me to avoid this channel. It is down right stupid and idiotic. To the point of him or whoever writes scripts for this show not being able to double check their numbers. Jav traveling at 3km/s and having a whole argument build on top of that spewed with a straight face was glorious to behold. On top of stupidity of whole argument of Jav vs Kornet.

 

4 hours ago, Pardus said:

Infact he seems to be pretty clear about both his sources, drawing a lot of information from both active and past personnel in the know.

Sources are not a problem. 

 

Also, videos about vehicles are better to be posted in Mechanized warfare subforum section.

[Pardus]

Watched the Kornet vs Javelin video, and I agree that video has some big mistakes, most notably the velocity of the Javelin, which is a pretty jarring one, esp. as he lists it has one of its strong suites making it more capable of defeating an APS systems than the Kornet, which entirely wrong. (FaF & Top attack are its main advantages) He has made other minor mistakes in other videos Ive seen too, purely technical ones, like for the Javelin, which is understandable as he's not an engineer. But he has always AFAIK owned up them, and said they were his own. These few mistakes are not enough to completely discredit his content however, as he does get most things right and often provides inside information directly from the mil equipment industry (hes often invited to observe new tech), so that is in an overreaction IMHO. At least I would have to unsub from a lot of otherwise great content creators if I wasnt to accept a few mistakes here and there. Also I enjoy scolding when they get things completely wrong too much

 

 

[Pardus]

I mean you can say the same about the History Legends channel, a video of whom you recently linked to, and I assume youre also a subscriber of like myself. He also sometimes gets things wrong, and like Task & Purpose, when it happens its most often when it comes to technical details regarding equipment (hes no engineer either). You quite simply can't be right all the time, esp. when you venture into areas outside your expertise, hence why it's super important that youre able to admit it when you do get it wrong -> which I have seen T&P do on multiple occasions...infact he quite often makes fun of himself as being a simple grunt.

[Pardus]

 

[Lord_James]

On 1/17/2023 at 8:28 PM, Pardus said:

 

Going from autoloader tanks to human loader must be pretty jarring for the army. I pity the maintenance and logistics personnel who also have to manage all the new equipment. 

[watch_your_fire]

9 hours ago, Lord_James said:

Going from autoloader tanks to human loader must be pretty jarring for the army. I pity the maintenance and logistics personnel who also have to manage all the new equipment. 

loading is a pretty easy job to train, especially since Ukraine already has those Slovenian M-55S tanks in service. Logistics and maintenance will be pretty hard, and it probably won't be easy to learn the peculiarities of the Challenger's fire control system.

It's the only modern MBT I can think of that doesn't have independently stabilized optics for the thermal sight, instead relying on gun stabilization to keep the picture level.

[Alzoc]

9 hours ago, watch_your_fire said:

loading is a pretty easy job to train, especially since Ukraine already has those Slovenian M-55S tanks in service. Logistics and maintenance will be pretty hard, and it probably won't be easy to learn the peculiarities of the Challenger's fire control system.

It's the only modern MBT I can think of that doesn't have independently stabilized optics for the thermal sight, instead relying on gun stabilization to keep the picture level.

 

That's the real issue (not the FCS or adapting to any quirk of the tank).

 

2 (3) parts ammo for the rifled 120 mm of the Challenger 2 will be hard to procure (I don't know if the UK are even still producing them).

Same for spare parts, I doubt that they are still in production. So in order to keep them running existing Challenger 2 (Either in UK or Ukrainian service) will have to be cannibalized.

 

That's the same reason France is reluctant to provide the Leclerc (minus the non-standard ammo). We only have about 220 of them running and the rest are used for parts (which once again aren't in production anymore). We need to make those we have left last to 2040 (and with the mess that the MGCS program is lately possibly even later). So any Leclerc sent to Ukraine would be almost impossible to repair once something brake down.

 

There is a reason the Ukrainians asked for Leopard 2, there are tons of them lying around in Europe (easy to source parts and ammo) and the repair facilities aren't that far from the border.

14 Challenger 2 is in itself a token amount. But it send a political signal toward Germany asking them to authorize Leopard 2 transfer and sales.

It's not unlikely that the US (and possibly France) will send a token amount of their own MBT as well in the future to facilitate Leopard 2 transfer.

[Pardus]

I think the Challenger 2 will probably do quite well in Ukraine, esp. if they reserve them for the most important tasks only. Because as you guys have rightly mentioned the real problem will be the maintenance of the tank. Which is the main reason the Leopard 2 is the optimal system for Ukraine.

 

That brings us to the reluctance of Germany to send its own Leopard 2s to Ukraine, which I can to some extent actually understand. But that they're not giving the green light for other countries to send theirs, that really boggles my mind. 

 

That said if deliveries of Leopard 2's to Ukraine are green lit, then I hope Germany steps up and atleast makes sure they are supplied with the latest insensitive ammunition available, so that the hull rack doesn't constitute a 'cook off' risk if the armour is breached.

 

Question is wether enough of this new type ammunition is actually available?