General AFV Thread

[heretic88]

I hope this wasnt posted before.

 

There is an article that claims Kurganets was tested in syria. Interesting. May it be true, or fake news?

http://anna-news.info/boevaya-mashina-pehoty-kurganets-25-protestirovana-v-sirii/

[Karamazov]

3 hours ago, heretic88 said:

I hope this wasnt posted before.

 

There is an article that claims Kurganets was tested in syria. Interesting. May it be true, or fake news?

http://anna-news.info/boevaya-mashina-pehoty-kurganets-25-protestirovana-v-sirii/

Maybe this is a joke on 1st April. But the news on Twitter from 31st March.
 

[Mighty_Zuk]

2 hours ago, Karamazov said:

Maybe this is a joke on 1st April. But the news on Twitter from 31st March.
 

31st of March doesn't exist. It's an April 1st prank to fool people into believing other April 1st pranks just because of a date-related technicality. 

 

Anyway, this piece of news is obviously fake. The Kurganets-25 is nowhere near the T-14 and T-15 in terms of testing in the state trials. Heck, I don't even know if it's undergoing such trials or still pending approval.

Since neither the T-14 nor T-15 were tested anywhere outside of Russia, it's safe to assume the Kurganets was spared that fate as well.

[SH_MM]

10 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

31st of March doesn't exist

 

[Karamazov]

27 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

31st of March doesn't exist. It's an April 1st prank to fool people into believing other April 1st pranks just because of a date-related technicality. 

 

Anyway, this piece of news is obviously fake. The Kurganets-25 is nowhere near the T-14 and T-15 in terms of testing in the state trials. Heck, I don't even know if it's undergoing such trials or still pending approval.

Since neither the T-14 nor T-15 were tested anywhere outside of Russia, it's safe to assume the Kurganets was spared that fate as well.

I agree. In Russia, in tank communities, someone gave information "from an insider" that the Kurganets are being reworked.

It did not suit the military. I do not know what is true of this, but since then there has been little heard about Kurganets.
There were similar rumors about the T-14's onboard protection. And about the T-15, about its dimensions.

 

[LoooSeR]

7 hours ago, heretic88 said:

I hope this wasnt posted before.

 

There is an article that claims Kurganets was tested in syria. Interesting. May it be true, or fake news?

http://anna-news.info/boevaya-mashina-pehoty-kurganets-25-protestirovana-v-sirii/

We have special thread for Armata and rest of new familities of AFVs.

http://sturgeonshouse.ipbhost.com/topic/131-glorious-t-14-armata-pictures/page/64/

 

I wouldn't be surprised if it really did appeared in Syria, as PAK-FA and BMPT prototypes were there.

[LoooSeR]

2 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

31st of March doesn't exist. It's an April 1st prank to fool people into believing other April 1st pranks just because of a date-related technicality. 

 

IDK, 31st was yeasterday.

 

[LoooSeR]

At SOFINS-2019

Quote

   The Thales Hawkei light armored vehicle equipped with a FN Herstal remote-controlled combat module with a 12.7 mm M2 machine gun and a 68-mm unguided or guided SNEB (c) Frederic Lert / Jane's four-rocket launcher

/.../

   Vehicle can fire both unguided and corrected (with a semi-active laser guidance system - apparently, of the SYROCOT type) 68-mm SNEB missiles. Accuracy of guided missiles declared as less than 1 meter. At the rear of the vehicle is an armored container with four spare missiles. Reloading the launcher from this container can be carried out by one of the crew members in less than a minute, including on the move. Firing rockets, however, is made only from the stop.

 

[LoooSeR]

[LoooSeR]

[LoooSeR]

   Not sure on accuracy of prices, but at least gives overal view

[FORMATOSE]

 

 

[heretic88]

If this is true then:

- Arjun(k) is extremely expensive for how bad it is.

- Merkava IV has ridiculously good price/value ratio

- Challenger-2 is also very expensive, for how outdated it is currently.

- T.99 seems to be quite cheap, although it would be good to know which variant... If 99A, then it also has good price/value ratio

 

I would be interesed in the price of the VT-4, seems to be a good tank.

[Mighty_Zuk]

46 minutes ago, heretic88 said:

If this is true then:

- Arjun(k) is extremely expensive for how bad it is.

- Merkava IV has ridiculously good price/value ratio

- Challenger-2 is also very expensive, for how outdated it is currently.

- T.99 seems to be quite cheap, although it would be good to know which variant... If 99A, then it also has good price/value ratio

 

I would be interesed in the price of the VT-4, seems to be a good tank.

It also doesn't mention that it's not current day prices, but prices taken out of any random phase of production. I remember about a decade ago people would actually say the Leclerc is so fancy because it's so expensive, and then the K2 is so fancy because it's so expensive, citing figures of $8 million to $14 million, not knowing those are figures for early tranches, with a lot of the development costs built in.

 

Type 99 also seems somewhat misplaced - not too long ago we've heard China prefers now to rely more on Type 96 tanks because the Type 99 are too expensive to produce in such quantities. For an economy like China, making thousands of tanks worth $2.6 million each sounds dirt cheap.

 

The figure for the Merkava 4 is definitely wrong. In 2010 in Eurosatory, SIBAT officials (defense export agency for the IDF) said the price of a single tank is $4.5 million, for export. The unit price for export will always be greater than what the IDF pays to procure it.

The topic has been only raised few times since then, but it always concluded in a "we don't know". The IDF buys parts for the tanks in bulk. And by 'bulk' I mean they always stock up on enough parts to keep production going for several years even if there's a complete supply chain shutdown. A lot of the procurement is completely independent of the desired amount of tanks, because the production goes on indefinitely. It's almost impossible to assess the true cost of a single unit. 

Of course, the IDF does not buy the tank as a complete system from a private company, but the tank is for the most part privatized, and the IDF even pays premium, and prioritizes contracts, for companies in suburban areas. 

 

There are also typos in the headline, and it appears the K2 image is this nice but ultimately failed attempt at a computerized model (main issue is the hull front shape):

Spoiler

 

[Timothy Yan]

The Type 99's 2.6 million USD quote was from 2005. Factor in the inflation from 2005 to 2019, that would be 3.4 millions. Consider that the VT-4 export mode to Thailand is 4.8 millions with downgraded armor and no laser soft-kill system, although the VT-4 does have RWS, automatic transmission, newer FCS and LWS. The ZTZ-99's price is mostly an internal price with no profit margin, so if you use the VT-4's price as the factor (assuming it has the 2nd gen TI, not 3rd gen as in the 99A), the actual price for the ZTZ-99 (the late model with 2nd gen TI and digital battlefield management) should be around 4.6 millions in today's price.  

 

Now factor in the cost of living and purchasing power index, which China is 1/4 of that of the USA, so x4 of 4.6 millions, the true cost of ZTZ-99 is about equivalent 18.4 million to their economy. What I mean by internal price is that it's the material cost to build the tank, but the salary and pension of the workers, the energy bill, the facility cost, the R&D costs are all subsidized by the government in one form or another. Also consider that some material like ballistic steel and germanium lens are priced about the same doesn't matter where you at. So that $1500 germanium lens for your gunner's sight is now costing a equivalent to $6000 for the Chinese to acquire, although they may have a small discount by locally produce it.  

[LoooSeR]

Iranian AFVs.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[heretic88]

On 4/20/2019 at 12:33 AM, Mighty_Zuk said:

The figure for the Merkava 4 is definitely wrong. In 2010 in Eurosatory, SIBAT officials (defense export agency for the IDF) said the price of a single tank is $4.5 million, for export.

Then it is even better. For more or less same amount of the money that a single Leclerc costs, you get two massively superior tanks...

Anyway, I think there is another error on that picture. Type 90 for 9.4 million??? I do not believe that. Its a relatively old tank compared to the Type 10, no way that it is so expensive. Probably the 9.4M is for the Type 10, although Im quite skeptical about this. Wikipedia (yes, yes I know do not trust it) says unit cost is "only" 8.4M.

 

[Mighty_Zuk]

It's very easy to inflate or deflate the cost of an MBT, if you choose to include or exclude certain even small aspects of the project's costs, because there's a lot of money revolving such projects indirectly.

[Serge]

4 hours ago, heretic88 said:

Then it is even better. For more or less same amount of the money that a single Leclerc costs, you get two massively superior tanks...

I know this theory. 

4 hours ago, heretic88 said:

Type 90 for 9.4 million??? I do not believe that. Its a relatively old tank compared to the Type 10, no way that it is so expensive. Probably the 9.4M is for the Type 10, although Im quite skeptical about this. Wikipedia (yes, yes I know do not trust it) says unit cost is "only" 8.4M.

The hight cost of the Type-90 comes from its very low rate of production. 

[LoooSeR]

Belarusian Kaymans during Russo-Belorusian joint exercices.

[David Moyes]

Romanian Piranha V with Elbit UT-30 Mk.2 turret.
Gunners UI:

[Lord_James]

 

I’m ~80% sure this is photoshopped, as I cannot find anything else about this vehicle, and the 100mm loading system would need a major overhaul to fit in the Rooikat hull. But, I could always be wrong. 

[skylancer-3441]

I would say that it's photoshopped using that picture of Rooikat:

and this picture of BMP-3 w/ Arena APS,

which was made narrower, and also it's roof and entire Arena APS radar was cut in order to keep Rooikat sights, because this particular version of BMP-3 turret lacks panoramic sight.

btw, it still has built-in Arena APS projectiles along frontal 270-degree arc:


which happend because apparently all that photoshopper needed was a photo of BMP-3 turret in desert sand color, made from the right angle.

[LoooSeR]

   Not sure where to post.

Quote

   On May 2, 2019, 19 kilometers from Prague (Czech Republic), an auto trailer with two museum tanks M36 Jackson and M3 Stuart crashed into a prison bus. From a collision the bus caught fire. Inside the bus were 19 people. Unfortunately, one person died and another 14 received injuries of varying severity. Tanks hardly suffered

   Interesting what those 15 people were in that prison bus that were injured.

 

   Truck is totally trashed, drivers is probably who died from this crash.

[heretic88]

Its the end of an era. South korea finally retires T-80U and BMP-3:

https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htarm/articles/20190406.aspx#startofcomments

 

It would be good to know what was their opinion about these two vehicles. Some sources say koreans were satisfied, others say they didnt like them...